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#771863 - 06/07/08 02:55 PM Re: What To Build [Re: TiminTN]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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 Originally Posted By: TiminTN
I found a deal on a SA Remington that I couldn`t pass up. It has been to Greg Tannel and had the complete blueprint done. Firing pin bushed, bolt body sleeved, double pinned recoil lug, superlite firing pin and spring. I already had a SA in the wings, so I put it up for sale when this gussied up one arrived. I already have nice deer rifles, and target rifles, just thought I`d ask the opinions here on what to cobble together. I`ve always wanted a 22BR and something with about a #4 taper. Fast twist, enough to shoot up to an 80 grain bullet. I`d not squabble at a 6BR either.......243AI..........260?

Ive got a 6x47 reamer, that would fit in there and be a good dual purpose round.

Many choices.

What say ye?


I think he is talking about this caliber.
243 Win Improved,is it .243 Win AI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi guy's
A question for you all
I have a .243 Winchester,I got rebarreled to .243 win AI,is it the same as a .243 Win Improved?
As I have to get reloading dies for it and can only find .243 Win Imp listed,will these do the job?
The dies I'm looking at are Redding,does anyone have any comments,good or bad about their dies?
Thanks in advance
Cheers
no3
Dale

kdub
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
The "AI" refers to "Ackley Improved". This design, by P.O. Ackley, is a case with a 40 degree shoulder and the walls straightned to almost no taper from base to shoulder.

The dies that are designated .243 AI or .243 Imp 40 deg will work fine.

Redding is a maker of quality reloading dies.
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Edited by Locksley (06/07/08 02:59 PM)
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#771877 - 06/07/08 03:13 PM Re: What To Build [Re: Locksley]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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I want a 6.8x43 to see what it will do in a bolt action rifle .
We know it works in a black rifle but what will it do in an accurate bolt rifle.???

6.8x43mm SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge)
The 6.8x43mm SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge) was conceived by a US Army 5th Special Forces Group soldier in a quest to improve the terminal ballistics of the M4 Carbine. The U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit and others assisted the Spec Ops team heading the project. Although the main objective was increased lethality, the new cartridge would go far beyond that in terms of accuracy and performance.

The 6.8mm [.270 military cartridge] Remington SPC cartridge was developed to provide increased lethality and better long range capability than current 5.56mm NATO or 7.62x39 through higher energies. The shell body diameter is larger than 5.56mm NATO but smaller than 7.62x39. The cartridge length is the same as 5.56mm NATO. The modular approach of M16 weapons family allows use of 6.8mm Rem SPC cartridge with dedicated upper receiver and magazine.

The 6.8mm Remington SPC is available with 115 gr Hornady Open-tipped match (OTM), 115 gr Sierra HPBT Match and 115 gr FMJ. Muzzle velocity is 2800 ft/s from a 24 barrel, 2625 ft/s from 16 barrel and 2475 ft/s from a 12 barrel, with 1 MOA dispersion typical. The chamber pressure is 55,000 psi MAP via conformal transducer. 28 rds of 6.8mm Rem SPC 115 gr OTM weighs ~1.06 lbm, 30 rds 5.56mm NATO 62 gr FMJ weighs ~0.76 lbm, 20 rds 7.62mm NATO 150 gr FMJ weighs ~1.07 lbm.

Remington 6.8mm SPC can be used with existing M16/M4 lowers with dedicated upper receiver and magazines. The 6.8mm Rem SPC offers higher energy for improved down range performance versus 5.56mm NATO and 7.62x39. Terminal performance in gelatin has been illustrated at 25 feet with short barreled weapons and at 50 yds with intermediate length barreled weapons. The 115 gr Hornady OTM provides for greater and more immediate temporary expansion cavity. The 6.8mm Rem SPC has been submitted to SAAMI.

By late 2004 the 6.8x43mm SPC was said to be performing well in the field against enemy combatants. Special Operations end users were reported to be very pleased with it.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/68spc.htm
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#772151 - 06/08/08 01:21 AM Re: What To Build [Re: Locksley]
Tiny
16 Point


Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 17761
Loc: Knoxville

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You do like the 6.5 bore somewhat as I recall so what about a T.C. Short Mag. on a case of your choice.
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#772157 - 06/08/08 02:28 AM Re: What To Build [Re: Tiny]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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The 6.8mm Remington SPC
The long-rumored .270 military cartridge is fact. Here's how it performs in the field.
By Gary Paul Johnston
Purpose Cartridge) is a different story for several reasons. Having been fortunate to be one of the few in the loop during the development of the round during the past two years, I know more about it than some. I've been able to not only study the 6.8mm as a military cartridge but also test it in several M16 variants.



The 6.8x43mm SPC was conceived by a U.S. Special Operations soldier in a quest to improve the terminal ballistics of the M4 Carbine. The U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit and others assisted the Spec Ops team heading the project. Although the main objective was increased lethality, the new cartridge would go far beyond that in terms of accuracy and performance.



After selecting the .30 Remington as the parent case--a decision that required only slight modification to the M16's bolt face--the case was shortened, given a new shoulder and blown out to maximum capacity for a new high-performance propellant. After testing a variety of bullets in 5.56mm, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm and 7.62mm, a bullet of 6.8mm was selected. This .270-caliber, 115-grain projectile has a ballistic coefficient of .350, offering optimum lethality and range.
Remington began to develop the 6.8x43 back in 2002 and is officially introducing it this year as the 6.8mm Rem SPC. As this is written, the cartridge has not been released to the public, but I can tell you that it provides one MOA accuracy out to more than 600 meters. It has a flight path almost identical to that of the .308 Winchester, less chamber pressure than the .223 and fits into the M16 magazine envelope. Tests in 10 percent ballistic gelatin show incapacitation as good or better than the .308.



While testing the military versions of the 6.8mm Rem SPC, I was offered the chance to hunt with a custom bolt-action rifle converted to fire the new round. I readily agreed and received the rifle along with 50 rounds of ammo loaded with Hornady 110-grain V-Max bullets. Having begun life as a CZ Model 527 in 7.62x39mm, the only portion of the rifle retained was the action. After the barrel was replaced by a stainless, semiheavy 22-inch match barrel by Mike Rock of Rock Creek Barrels, the bolt was modified to feed and eject the 6.8mm. No modification of the magazine was necessary.
The high-quality, Mauser-type, .223-length CZ 527 action will accommodate rounds similar to the 6.8mm Rem SPC. With a nonrotating extractor, the action provides controlled feed with a detachable magazine of single-column design that doesn't release the round until it is partially chambered. The CZ has a totally positive thumb safety with integral scope bases. Like most true Mauser actions, it is very smooth and has an excellent adjustable trigger.

A custom stock was ordered for the CZ from McMillan Fiberglass Stocks. It was handmade with a special camouflage pattern by the late Mike Barber of McMillan, just before his tragic death in a sky diving accident while making a movie.



Although there is very little recoil from the 6.8mm Rem SPC, the stock was fitted with a Pachmayr Decelerator Pad to provide a nonslip surface. The rifle had no optics or iron sights, so I ordered a set of Talley one-inch steel rings. These rings are of the highest quality, and the fit is perfect. In these rings I mounted a Burris 3-9x32mm Mini scope--an ideal size for my needs.



After bore-sighting the CZ, I fired it from the bench. Loads using 110-grain Hornady V-Max bullets produced a three-shot, 100-yard group of .94 inch with an average of 1.18 inches. All groups centered about 1.5 inches high and left of point of aim and averaged 2,971 fps on my Competition Electronics ProChrono LE. Because of my limited supply of ammunition and the fact that there was a 20-mph gusting wind from the right, I called it good.



In addition to mule deer, I was prepared to use the 6.8mm Rem SPC on elk if the conditions were right. (Hornady's Wayne Holt summed it up by saying that the 110-grain V-Max should do at least as much damage as an arrow.)
Opening day found my wife, Nancy, and I hunting north of Ridgway, Colorado, at about 8,000 feet where my friends had seen some big bucks the day before along with a herd of about 75 elk. We saw several nice bucks the first couple of days, but they were too far away, and the elk we spotted were even farther. I knew I would probably have to use my .300 Win. Mag. for elk, but I was determined to get a mule deer with the 6.8mm.



On the third day, I was glassing a field at midday when my partner, Jaysen Evans, saw a buck running. I turned and got the deer's east end in my scope as he headed west and disappeared into some scrub oak. I signaled Jaysen to go in wide and right while I stalked the buck. After I had gone about 25 yards, I saw it trotting away, but as mule deer often do, he stopped at about 75 yards and turned to look back at me through the scrub oak. I knelt and put my crosshairs on his ribs, but some brush was between us. I moved up until the reticle was clear, and I pressed the trigger.



As the shot cracked, the light recoil from the 6.8mm allowed me to see the buck do a backward summersault. He never got up. Jaysen and I estimated the deer at more than 200 pounds. What was left of the 110-grain .270 Hornady bullet had exited the opposite side of the rib cage, creating a large laceration. Both lungs had severe damage, and bullet and bone fragments had also damaged other organs. It was as clean a kill as I have ever made.

In addition to any role the 6.8mm Rem SPC will have as a military cartridge, I predict it will be extremely popular as a hunting cartridge for small- to medium-size game at ranges out to 300 yards or more as it is extremely flat-shooting. Remington is now producing the 6.8mm SPC in three loadings,all with 115-grain bullets. The MatchKing Ballistic Tip Hollowpoint will deliver 2,800 fps and 2,002 ft-lbs of energy. It will also be offered in a standard BTHP loading and in an FMJ version, both with the same muzzle velocity out of a 24-inch barrel.



Remington is expected to introduce rifles for the 6.8mm SPC soon, but at press time no specifics were available. One rumor is that a heavy-barrel tactical rifle will be introduced and possibly a Model Seven. Other makers are waiting anxiously to chamber AR-type rifles and carbines, and several ammunition companies plan to load the new round. Look for more news soon in the pages of RifleShooter.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/remington_0303/
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#772159 - 06/08/08 02:38 AM Re: What To Build [Re: Tiny]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tiny
You do like the 6.5 bore somewhat as I recall so what about a T.C. Short Mag. on a case of your choice.



THE calibers from 24 to 27 allow the highest velocity with down range energy . They are the high volicity rifles of today , and the long range hunting rifles. Even the Army wanted a 270 caliber cartridge as early as the 1930's , the 276 Pererson.
Locksley




When the Army Ordnance folks conceived of the idea of developing a semiautomatic rifle just after World War I, they very intelligently hired two top-notch gun designers for the job--John Garand and J. D. Pedersen.

Eventually Garand's design won out but it was originally scheduled for adoption in a novel cartridge designed by Pedersen, the .276 Pedersen.

I have handled a .276 Garand prototype in the West Point Museum collection and it is an intriguing rifle. It is much slimmer and trimmer than the .30-'06 Ml, about a pound and a half lighter, and generally handier.

Recoil must have been quite mild, and its magazine capacity was 10 rounds instead of eight. While the .276 Pedersen was less powerful than the .30-'06, it was more than adequately powerful for service rifle use--typically launching a 125 grain 7mm bullet at 2,550 fps.

In 1932 the recommendation for adoption and production of the .276 Garand rifle was approved all the way up to Army Chief of Staff, General Douglas MacArthur. Unfortunately, MacArthur unilaterally disapproved it. He wanted the rifle but in .30-'06.

This was done and the .30-'06 Garand eventually passed its tests just as well as did the .276 version. In January of 1936 it was officially adopted as the "U.S. Rifle, Cal. .30 M1."

MacArthur's decision caused a four year delay in getting the Garand adopted and in production. Our military forces might have been far better prepared when the war eventually broke out if that delay had not taken place.

Desperate Need

When World War II broke out, only about 40,000 .30 M1 Garand rifles had been produced, and few were in the hands of troops. The new rifle was particularly scarce oversease, but it soon took over as the primary combat rifle of the entire U.S. Army.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_10_48/ai_90529095
The .276 Pedersen (7 x 51 mm) round was an experimental 7 mm cartridge developed for the US Army and used in the Pedersen rifle and early versions of what would become the M1 Garand rifle.

Developed in 1923 in the United States, it was intended to replace the .30-06 Springfield in new semi-automatic rifles and machine guns. When first recommended for adoption, M1 Garand rifles were chambered for the .276 Pedersen, which held ten rounds in its unique en-bloc clips. The .276 Pedersen was a shorter, lighter and lower pressure round than the .30-06, which made the design of an autoloading rifle easier than the long, powerful .30-06. The US Army Chief of Staff Gen. Douglas MacArthur rejected the .276 Pedersen Garand in 1932 after verifying that a .30-06 version was feasible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.276_Pedersen

Edited by Locksley ( 8 seconds ago)


Edited by Locksley (06/08/08 03:43 AM)
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#772198 - 06/08/08 07:50 AM Re: What To Build [Re: Locksley]
Whelen Man
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 2327
Loc: Athens, TN, USA

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I know you've got the 6 Dasher and the 6.5x284 so I would probably build a straight 6BR with a no turn neck. It would make an excellent varmint or target rifle either even with the magazine. That way you can use your same bullets and reloading tools with the exception of the 6BR dies and if you buy some you can then build you a 6BRX and use the dies with it later. I may eventually buy a reamer for those specs and then build one myself. I've got a 22-250 that I'd like to rework but accuracy is so good from it's sporter barrel that I hate to take it apart.

I've been looking at the 30BR also and that just may be my next build unless the 6.5x284 gets too good looking. Too many calibers....too little time and money. AH!
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#772324 - 06/08/08 11:13 AM Re: What To Build [Re: Whelen Man]
TiminTN
12 Point


Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 6337
Loc: Memphis,Tennessee U.S.A.

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Kiff, is making me a 6BR reamer as we speak. I chose a .269" neck for a light single pass cleanup of the necks.

The K&M turner and drill adapter to power turn the cases took so much of the trouble out of that chore.

I had 2 6BR barrels, and had 1 rechambered to Dasher, so my 12" twist 6BR is still a BR.

I`d like to be able to use this build as dual purpose deer/antelope and predator/varmint.

I had an itch for a 6mm Remington AI, but it fits poorly in the short action. 80 to 90 grain Ballistic Tips would be a hoot out on the prarie stalking an antelope.

If i can find my 257 Roberts brass, I may neck some down anyway and just see how bad it is to try and get all that case and bullet in a 2.8" magazine.

I had a 257 Roberts Remington Classic, and it was made right, on a long action.
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#772753 - 06/08/08 09:41 PM Re: What To Build [Re: TiminTN]
Tiny
16 Point


Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 17761
Loc: Knoxville

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 Originally Posted By: TiminTN
If i can find my 257 Roberts brass, I may neck some down anyway and just see how bad it is to try and get all that case and bullet in a 2.8" magazine.

I had a 257 Roberts Remington Classic, and it was made right, on a long action.


1- Other than looking a little odd at 2.825" I think you may have just enought bullet left to seat them a little further for the above 2.800.

2- Question Did Your Classic Have a long throat to with its long action?
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#772781 - 06/08/08 10:02 PM Re: What To Build [Re: Tiny]
TiminTN
12 Point


Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 6337
Loc: Memphis,Tennessee U.S.A.

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The Classic was throated nicely. Not long or short. I shot 100 grain Ballistic Tips, and 117 Sierras. No problem.
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#772993 - 06/09/08 08:54 AM Re: What To Build [Re: TiminTN]
firefox
6 Point


Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 762
Loc: USA

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I think you should have gone with the 6.5 Creedmoor
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session...a0ddb8e27512dfd
The link is for factory ammo...imagine what you could have done with handloads \:D
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