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#636923 - 02/27/08 10:21 PM Decided on the build
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 28736
Loc: Copper Head Road

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when I get my tax rebate

gonna take my 25-06 thats toast and have a 6mmAI built on the long action with a 30 inch Sendero weight bbl throated for the 95 Sierra MK put it in a Sendero-II stock and put in the Jewel trigger and hopefully have the LRT straightened out..
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#636974 - 02/27/08 10:43 PM Re: Decided on the build [Re: mr.big]
SNIPER 7MM
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Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 1951
Loc: lancaster, tn

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cool
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#637017 - 02/27/08 11:02 PM Re: Decided on the build [Re: mr.big]
TiminTN
12 Point


Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 6329
Loc: Memphis,Tennessee U.S.A.

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Richard Franklin would be smiling.

Excellent choice.

I held up my reamer guy on the 6mm/06, and told him I wanted the 6mm AI. That is plenty of case even for the heavy weight bullets.

I been dragging my feet due the choice between it and the 243 AI.
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#637062 - 02/28/08 12:47 AM Re: Decided on the build [Re: TiminTN]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19733
Loc: Antioch TN

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Why not a 244 Holland and Holland Magnum that is a 6 MM with huge case capacity and should be able to use the new slower burning powders.

The .244 Holland & Holland Magnum cartridge was created in 1955 in Great Britain by deerstalker and rifle-maker David Lloyd (d. 1996), of Pipewell Hall, Northamptonshire and Glencassley in Sutherland, Scotland, and is not to be confused with the smaller-cased and much milder .244 Remington. Stalking on extremely steep deer forests such as his own at Glencassley, Lloyd was in search of a "canyon rifle" cartridge that would shoot exceptionally fast and with a very flat trajectory across deep valleys and over distances out to 300 yards and more, to make range estimation less critical for accurate bullet placement, and to deliver a hard-hitting bullet weighing a minimum of 100 grains (10 g). The .244 H&H Magnum easily met these criteria.
History
Based upon the well proven .375 H&H Magnum rimless belted big game cartridge case heavily necked down, the .244 H&H originally fired a 100 grain, aluminum-jacketed, copper-pointed bullet pushed by 74 grains (4.8 g) of non-cordite smokeless (nitrocellulose) powder, and returned a muzzle velocity of c.3,500 ft/s. That load and velocity remain standard for the commercially-loaded cartridge today; although handloaders can achieve higher velocities with careful load tuning. The .244 seldom performs well in barrels less than 26in long, owing to the need for a longer bore to allow pressure and bullet velocity to reach intended levels.
Lloyd was unable and unwilling to embark upon commercial cartridge production, and consequently "gave" the cartridge to veteran London rifle and ammunition makers Holland and Holland Ltd., who in 1954 had paid him 250 towards his cartridge development costs. H&H quickly adopted it, the cartridge acquired the prestigious "H&H" appellation, and both H&H and David Lloyd went on to build significant numbers of very high-quality bolt-action deer-stalking rifles in .244 H&H Magnum calibre (see Lloyd rifle). Initially, commercially-loaded ammunition was manufactured by IMI Kynoch at its Birmingham, England factory. Commercially, this cartridge has only ever been loaded with 100-grain bullets: lighter- and heavier-bulleted loads have been created by handloaders.

Chuck Hawks, a prominent US commentator on rifle cartridges, opines that, "the .244 H&H Magnum represents some sort of high water mark in the development of the 6 mm cartridge. To use an aviation analogy, you could think of it as the Concorde of rifle cartridges." [2]

David Lloyd, the .244's originator, went on to develop a still more powerful prototype round by reducing the case body taper and increasing the already large power capacity to produce the "David Lloyd 6 mm Magnum". His hope was to use bullets heavier than the .244 H&H standard 100-grain; but this cartridge was never commercially produced, and only two prototype Lloyd rifles are believed to have been chambered for it.

In the early 1990s British fieldsports author and ballistician Colin McKelvie had a custom rifle built on a BRNO CZ Magnum action, with a .244in Border Barrel with a 1:7 fast twist. Using handloads with very-low-drag (VLD) .244in hollow-point bullets of 115 grains (7.5 g), accuracy of 0.63 MOA was achieved, with average muzzle velocity of 3,630 ft/s (1,106 m/s) and acceptable chamber pressures.[citation needed] This level of performance is what Lloyd had sought with his "improved" .244 H&H Magnum.
Controversy
While the belted .244 H&H Magnum could be considered the velocity/energy pinnacle of 6 mm/.240in cartridges, that power comes at the cost of significant muzzle blast, as well as shorter-than-average barrel life; in addition to which commercially-loaded ammunition is expensive. Because of these drawbacks the cartridge never came into widespread popularity, and has never been offered as a chambering by any of the mass-market riflemakers. The .244 H&H rather fell by the wayside in favour of 6 mm rifles in the same general class such as the .240 Weatherby Magnum (for which it had been an inspiration to designer Roy Weatherby), and also the various 6.5 mm Magnums. The .244 H&H still has its adherents, however, and occasional rifles are still chambered in this caliber, by Holland & Holland and others. Ammunition is still made for Holland & Holland, and used cases can of course be handloaded.

Such extremely high velocity calibres always invite controversy, and the .244 H&H has been passionately condemned (invariably by commentators with little practical experience of it) as a result of some reports of rifles blowing-up or seriously malfunctioning as a result of massively excessive chamber and bore pressures. A few such incidents have occurred; but the fault in all cases has been found to lie with the rifles' owners' failure to keep the bores scrupulously free of accumulated copper fouling.[citation needed] The very fast, rapidly spinning .244 bullet tends to deposit bullet gilding metal fouling rather readily, especially in a roughly bored barrel, and as this deposition builds up the bore becomes constricted and internal pressures rise exponentially, sometimes to and beyond danger point. Accurate and safe shooting with the .244 H&H - an extreme cartridge - has always been predicated upon meticulous bore cleaning, which is essential. Where this has been done, no rifle has failed to perform well and safely.
Specifications
Despite the .244 designation, the .244 H&H Magnum actually uses a bullet of .245in diameter, similar to its older, much milder H&H predecessor, the .240 Apex; and this has been a source of some confusion, and of frustration to handloaders. Most typical 6 mm caliber cartridges use a .243 bullet. While there is a wealth of market choice for the handloader seeking good .243in diameter hunting bullets, such as are used in the .243 Winchester, the .245in bullet is only made in one 100-grain type, exclusively for the commercial manufacturers of this cartridge. Attempts to use conventional .243in bullets in a H&H or Lloyd barrel bored for .245 have been disappointing, with indifferent accuracy. However, a few enthusiasts have achieved very good results with custom-made rifles, using .244 H&H chamber reamers on barrels bored to .243in., using standard .243in bullets.

Bullet diameter: .245 in
Rim diameter: .532 in
Loads:
55 gr @ 4,034 ft/s (1,229.6 m/s)
95 gr @ 3,522 ft/s (1,073.5 m/s)
100 gr @ 3,500 ft/s (1,070 m/s)
References
References
^ Cartridges of the World 11th Edition, Book by Frank C. Barnes, Edited by Stan Skinner, Gun Digest Books, 2006, ISBN 0-89689-297-2 pp. 380, 532
^ .244 H&H Magnum by Chuck Hawks
http://www.chuckhawks.com/244H-H_Mag.htm

.244 H&H Loading data at Reloaders Nest
http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bl.asp?CaliberID=106&Bullet=Nosler%20Ballistic%20Tip


External links
244 HOLLAND & HOLLAND MAGNUM at Accurate Reloading
http://www.accuratereloading.com/244hhmag.html


Edited by Locksley (02/28/08 12:50 AM)
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#637082 - 02/28/08 02:49 AM Re: Decided on the build [Re: Locksley]
smstone22
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Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16904
Loc: Allardt, TN

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That is some interesting info Locksley, thanks.
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#637090 - 02/28/08 04:26 AM Re: Decided on the build [Re: smstone22]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19733
Loc: Antioch TN

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 Originally Posted By: steven stone
That is some interesting info Locksley, thanks.


I always wanted to build a super 243 ever since I bought my first 243 back in 1974 and compared it to my 264 Winchester Magnum rifle . I wanted to push that 6 MM bullett to at least the 6.5 MM 264 Winchester Magnum volocity but my money was never right and time has run its course but the idea is still there unfullfilled . Your generation will have to explore the possibilities of the 6 MM magnum idea.
Locksley
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To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

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#637099 - 02/28/08 05:20 AM Re: Decided on the build [Re: Locksley]
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
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the 6mmAI is a magnum in my mind.
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#637100 - 02/28/08 05:21 AM Re: Decided on the build [Re: mr.big]
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
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Loc: Copper Head Road

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I think Laupa makes 7x57 brass for the cases..
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#637128 - 02/28/08 06:27 AM Re: Decided on the build [Re: mr.big]
BucknBass
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 2843
Loc: Bartlett, TN USA

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Awesome - congrat's!
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#637172 - 02/28/08 07:09 AM Re: Decided on the build [Re: mr.big]
TiminTN
12 Point


Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 6329
Loc: Memphis,Tennessee U.S.A.

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Negative on Lapua brass. This was the main reason for stalling for me. Norma and RWS would be the top choices, RWS being the best of those 2 from a durability standpoint.

It`ll be a 243 AI or 6mm/06 with 30 degree shoulder for my pick.
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