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#533731 - 12/19/07 09:49 AM QDM Club Penalties
Highland
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Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Hamilton County

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The property we are hunting has practiced QDMA for over 20 years. The membership turn over is low, we may go five years without a new member. Our main goal is not to harvest any bucks under the age of 3 1/2. This property is very unique in the fact that some 2 1/2 are in the 115 - 125 class. We are hunting in S.E. TN, and are harvesting some incredible deer for the area, and really any area. Over the last two years three 140 + have been harvested. Every year one or two 2 1/2 bucks are harvested, and in most cases, are truly tough calls in a hunting environment in the woods and a decsision is limited to 1- 5 seconds to shoot or not. However, there are a few members who seem to struggle each year with identifying 2 1/2 year olds. They are harvesting some good looking bucks, but are 2 1/2 by jaw bone aging. We as a club are trying to discourage this by talking about the deer and the potiential they have with these members, but so far have not been successful. We are not to the point of asking them to leave the club, but what kind of (punishment is not the word I am looking for, maybe penalty is better) penalty or consequences should we as a club try to envoke to better help ensure more of our 2 1/2 year olds are advancing to the older age class?
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#533745 - 12/19/07 09:56 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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If the harvest of top-end 2 1/2 year-olds is only 1 or 2 per year, I don't see a problem. Depending on the size of the property, I really don't think those minimal harvests are doing much harm.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#533748 - 12/19/07 09:58 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
ClubHead
6 Point


Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Benton Co.Ky Lake,Tn

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One buck limit.Make it count.
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#533783 - 12/19/07 10:17 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: ClubHead]
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 7085
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

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If they shoot one that is not legal by the rules then there buck hunting is done for the year. I bet that would stop it.
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#533812 - 12/19/07 10:35 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: muddyboots]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27608
Loc: TN

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If its the same people year after year, its easy to fix! If not, either get everybody a better education, or set a penalty in place.
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#533864 - 12/19/07 11:24 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Winchester]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
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if it happens at chaney lake, the person will loose his chance for the big buck award!

oh! the big buck award is $1400.00!!!!!!!!
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#533881 - 12/19/07 11:37 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Chaneylake]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
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Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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In most of Tennessee, a 115" deer is a good deer. Be hard to turn one of them down. There are exception areas. I'd just be happy to have a killable population of those in most of TN.
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#533937 - 12/19/07 12:14 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
ShotgunSP
4 Point


Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 222
Loc: Nashville

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I agree with what BSK says... But you could also do an "earn a buck" system. If the first buck is younger than your target age, that member must kill x number of does to earn another chance at a buck.

Edited by ShotgunSP (12/19/07 12:14 PM)

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#533943 - 12/19/07 12:21 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: ShotgunSP]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16919
Loc: Allardt, TN

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A couple of 2.5 yr olds will not hurt you one bit.
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#533953 - 12/19/07 12:38 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: ShotgunSP]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


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regardless of how hard you try to teach people what to kill, you will never be 100% successful. there are too many variables that a hunter has to deal with. some hunters pick up on this rather quick, others will never be able to properly judge a shooter. i have seen hunters that kill the first 8 point that they see, bring the buck out and grab the camera. it continues year after year. beauty is always in the eyes of the beholder the same as what some see and do not see as a large mature buck. we try anything that we can think of. we know that we will never have every hunter that can identify a shooter, we keep trying though, and this has helped to keep mistakes to a minimum.
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#533965 - 12/19/07 12:54 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BSK]
Highland
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Registered: 12/18/07
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Loc: Hamilton County

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I did not mention the size of the property - sorry that would probably be helpful. We are managing around 1,000 acres, but the land owner adjacent to us is managing 8,000 acres, with more stringent requirements.
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#533988 - 12/19/07 01:11 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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In that siuation, you'll never run out of 3 1/2+ year-old bucks, as long as you don't over-pressure your 1,000 acres and/or you have more of what deer are looking for, especially pockets of good cover.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#534564 - 12/19/07 10:28 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BSK]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
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Registered: 08/15/07
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Loc: Hardin, Co.

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Maybe fine then $50 to $100, and use the money to improve the lease.
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#534603 - 12/19/07 10:57 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
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Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...

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we tried using all fines to herd improvement and food plots
i do not thing it makes any difference
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#534632 - 12/19/07 11:10 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: smstone22]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6612
Loc: Nashville

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 Originally Posted By: steven stone
A couple of 2.5 yr olds will not hurt you one bit.


I wanted to expound on Steven's statement...

It depends on what exactly you are manging for. Should you be managing with traditional QDM goals and simply trying to protect the yearlings, then Steven is correct. A few 2-1/2 year olds on about 1,000 acres won't harm a thing.

However, if you are more into trophy management with the goal of harvesting 4-1/2+ year old deer, then the harvest of 2-1/2 year old deer is more detrimental to your program then harvesting the same number of 1-1/2 year old deer. If that's the case you may do better with a simple limit on the number of bucks that can be harvested to prevent too many middle-aged deer from being removed prematurely.
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#534638 - 12/19/07 11:15 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BigGameGuy]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16919
Loc: Allardt, TN

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BGG, one thing that must be considered also is if those couple of 2.5 yr olds werent shot by a hunter, then how many would die of natural mortality anyway.
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#534660 - 12/19/07 11:52 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: smstone22]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
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Loc: Nashville

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Exactly Steven, that's why if you are managinging for mature deer, it's more detrimental to shoot a 2-1/2 year old buck as opposed to a yearling...because that 2-1/2 has already survived to make it to 2-1/2. It gets even more detrimental if you shoot a 3-1/2.
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#534702 - 12/20/07 06:24 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
416wbymag
8 Point


Registered: 09/13/06
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Loc: Hardin Valley

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So, I know how to tell mature from yearling but is there that big a difference between 2.5 and 3.5 years. Also, is it that obvious from 100 yards in a scope?
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#534745 - 12/20/07 07:20 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: 416wbymag]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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To me, identifying 2 1/2 from 3 1/2 year-old bucks is the toughest part of field-judging buck age. Personally, I look at the size of the neck and the depth of the chest.
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#534804 - 12/20/07 08:13 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BSK]
megalomaniac
12 Point


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 5055
Loc: Mississippi

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As others have said, I wouldn't sweat losing one or two 2 1/2 yr olds overall per year. However, in this case, it sounds like it's only one or two guys killing all the young deer. In that case, I'd go to a $500 or $1000 fine. That'll make people think twice about pulling the trigger. Or just give them one more warning, and kick them out if they shoot another 2 1/2.

My cousin killed a 2 1/2 yr old on our farm this year. 17" inside spread, scored 115". It didn't bother me a bit because he hasn't killed a buck on the farm in 3 years, and this was only his third buck to kill in 6 years. He knew he made a mistake, but I know that honest mistakes do happen on occasion. I would have felt different if he killed a couple 2 1/2 yr old bucks every year on the farm, though.

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#535072 - 12/20/07 12:37 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: megalomaniac]
Highland
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Registered: 12/18/07
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Loc: Hamilton County

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Excellent responses from everybody. This census proves there is no simple ansewer to the question. Everything that has been debated on this forum, we as a club have discussed time and time again. Removing people from the lease is most likely not an option.

The best solution we have come up with, is to implement the BSK system of trail camereas this year. We are going to monitor our deer herd through camereas and see if we can identify some of these top notch 2 1/2 year old bucks that we as a club want to see make it to at least the next age class. If the club can view these bucks before the arrows are knocked and the bullets loaded, it may improve judgement. Not to mention the fact that if we get some photo's of 140's plus, it may deter some from wanting a 115 inch deer.

Thanks for the responses.

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#535104 - 12/20/07 01:06 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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NOTHING helps hunters pass up "decent" bucks like having proof much better bucks exist (trail-cam pictures of top-end bucks). I've seen it happen time and again.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#535192 - 12/20/07 02:34 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
chicken litter
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Registered: 12/20/07
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Loc: Chattanooga, TN.

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I agree with Winchester, its probably the same problem members year after year, and yes it may be time to set an example and eliminate the problem. I have been a member of several hunting clubs in pass and I look at it like this, if this club has a 3 1/2 yr. old, 125 class rule and the other members are trying very hard to comply and are passing on these smaller bucks just to have those problem members cuttem down. This will only lead to problems with moral among the compling members. These problem hunters need to get serious and educate themselves or go! Trophy Hunting is not about kill numbers its about harvesting quality mature animals and it sounds like this club just has basic rules.
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#535221 - 12/20/07 02:56 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
chicken litter
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Registered: 12/20/07
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Loc: Chattanooga, TN.

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Yes Highland, this trail cam idea sounds like a good plan, we do this some on our lease and it helps educate us on our properties herd. We actually give the deer in our trail cam pictures names so everyone can identify shooters and non shooters. Again good idea.
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#535242 - 12/20/07 03:21 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
hawghead
4 Point


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 137
Loc: COLLEGE GROVE,TN

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WE HAVE RULES THAT ARE PRETTY BASIC.THE BUCK HAS TO BE AT LEAST EIGHT POINTS OR BETTER,AND THE SPREAD HAS TO BE WELL OUTSIDE HIS EARS.WE DON'T TRY TO AGE DEER IN THE WOODS,RATHER WE HAVE THOSE GUIDLINES TO GO BY.WE HAVE ONLY HAD TO PENALIZE ONE MEMBER(WHICH WAS ME)FOR SHOOTING A BUCK WITHOUT TAKING A GOOD LOOK AT HIM FIRST.YES WE HAVE HAD TO PASS ON SOME NICE DEER,BUT WE HAVE INSURED A GOOD POPULATION OF MATURE ANIMALS.
OH YES,I SHOT AN EIGHT POINT THAT LOOKED GOOD ENOUGH FROM THE SIDE,BUT WAS NOT WIDE ENOUGH TO PASS FOR A SHOOTER.I MADE THE WRONG DECISION.I LOST MY HUNTING PRIVILEGES FOR THREE WEEKS.
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#535271 - 12/20/07 03:49 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: chicken litter]
Highland
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Registered: 12/18/07
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Loc: Hamilton County

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WOW! Chicken Litter - remind me not to get on your bad side. I hope you don't make a mistake in the hunting woods with that kind of policy. Our club is made up of friends, and yours sounds like it is a military training facility.

That is a little too much for me, it is still deer hunting, which is suppose to be about fun and good friends. We are wanting to curtail the harvesting of 2 1/2 year old bucks, not put the shooter on trial.

But thanks for sharing your opinion.

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#545442 - 12/31/07 06:56 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
Mountain Buck
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Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 23
Loc: TN, Marion County

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Highland,
What are your club rules on legal deer?

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#545655 - 12/31/07 09:25 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Mountain Buck]
Brad Martin
6 Point


Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 913
Loc: Knoxville

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I think the key is getting those club members to believe that there are 140+ deer walking around, (trail-cams) AND having members that want to kill only deer of that size. I can't really blame those guys in the club for shooting a 110-115 8pt, if this is their biggest deer they have ever seen, or even their second or third. Now, if they have eight of them on the wall that are bigger, then it might be a problem.

I think that one of the problems that clubs run into is trying to convince members not to shoot the biggest deer they have ever seen. I have passed several deer on our club, knowing that if half of the club members saw it, they would shoot it. If I shoot it, he is definitely not going to be any bigger next year. Keeping the same club members each year and as they kill more and more bucks, or see more hunting and through trailcams, everyone will increase their standards.
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#551626 - 01/06/08 10:13 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Brad Martin]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 03/26/99
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Basically, the first step in a QDM program buckwise is to protect all yearlings. Generally the next step is to protect most 2.5 year olds. The distinction between 2.5 year olds and 3.5 year olds is hard to make under hunting conditions especially on your top end 2.5 year olds. I don't really see how you can totally eliminate the top 2.5 year olds from harvest. I might add in a minimum antler score and brackett the penalties per score range up to and including forfeiture of filling remaining buck tags if the buck is too small. Even this won't eliminate all 2.5 year olds taken but it should help slow it down to acceptable levels.

I say this and I belong to a club that has a size restriction of 120" minimum. We've had a 40+% increase in our 120"+ class bucks taken this year over last but at the same time a 100% increase in those bucks taken under that minimum. The really sad part is that half of the unders ranged from 96"-108". Even with our restrictions and penalties hunters shot these bucks. I can see a mistake on certain bucks closer to the minimum but bucks the size of 96" aren't even close. When rules are in place and hunters still take bucks of this caliber irregardless of the penalties it may simply be time for those hunters to look for another place to hunt.
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#551649 - 01/06/08 10:35 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Mike Belt]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Great post Mike, and that's why it's so important to join/form a club with hunters of like mind. I realize that is extremely difficult, but if you can pull it off you've got something special.

Some hunters have no problem holding out for what they really want--a large-antlered buck--even if that means going "buckless" for several years in a row. Other hunters will take the first "decent" buck they see simply to keep from going buckless for the year. If you want a successful "big buck" club, you have to find those hunters that can hold off on the lesser bucks.

I'll be the first to admit I hate going buckless. I do want to kill a large-antlered buck, but I have real problems passing up that first 90-110 class 2 1/2 year-old buck I see. It is a constant mental battle...
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#551701 - 01/06/08 11:39 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BSK]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
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easily said BSK, but extremely hard to do, still working at it though!
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#551782 - 01/06/08 01:37 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BSK]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
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Loc: Hardin, Co.

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 Originally Posted By: BSK


I'll be the first to admit I hate going buckless. I do want to kill a large-antlered buck, but I have real problems passing up that first 90-110 class 2 1/2 year-old buck I see. It is a constant mental battle...


BSK,
I agree, passing up that first yearling buck years ago was easy compaired to trying to move up to the next level of of not shooting 2 1/2 year olds, but not shooting yearling on our place has make a huge difference. We let quite a few 2 1/2 year olds go but I has taken a few years to get to that level.
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#552051 - 01/06/08 06:01 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
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Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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BSK---Practice makes perfect, lol. I don't ever remember going buckless 3 years in a row except for the last 3 years. During that time I've seen and could have killed 100 bucks that would have met our minimum plus a few points to spare. I got in the club for the potential that was there and thus far I just haven't been in the right place at the right time. Along the way I could have easily filled my tags but again, that's not why I joined Ames. I consider passing on the smaller "legal" bucks as paying my dues towards eventually taking what I'm there for in the first place. Going buckless is not really my cup of tea but it does get easier to pass on the "on the verge bucks" the more you see. I now can actually spot half a dozen 120" bucks running does by their antlers first and still never raise the rifle for a shot as they run right under my stand. I'll know him when I see him.
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#552247 - 01/06/08 07:54 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: ClubHead]
squattin dogg
10 Point


Registered: 10/11/02
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Loc: Gallatin,TN USA / Deer Camp

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 Originally Posted By: ClubHead
One buck limit.Make it count.

That seems to be a good start?
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#552712 - 01/07/08 07:38 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: squattin dogg]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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I'm just lucky to hunt a property where taking a couple of 2 1/2 year-old bucks each year doesn't really cut down on our ability to also produce quite a few 3 1/2+ year-old bucks, including a couple of 4 1/2+ year-old bucks each year. We have the best of both worlds. We can take more than 1 buck each and still hope to kill a good one. Although that said, few hunters ever do take more than one buck. Generally, only one or two hunters out of the five will take more than 1 buck each year.

In fact, we generally only kill 6-9% of the bucks we have on camera each year.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#552716 - 01/07/08 07:40 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: squattin dogg]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: squattin dogg
 Originally Posted By: ClubHead
One buck limit.Make it count.

That seems to be a good start?


I think a club with a 1 buck limit would certainly make hunters think twice about what they are harvesting. And if they do take "lesser" bucks, the low buck bag limit isn't going to allow much harm to be done to the buck age structure by taking a lesser buck (as long as there aren't too many hunters in the club).
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#553098 - 01/07/08 11:49 AM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BSK]
Highland
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Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Hamilton County

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There are seven hunters hunting this property. Our rules used to be one buck per year. The problem ended up being, some of the hunters did not have anywhere else to hunt, so they would continually let "shooter bucks" walk early in the season, only to never see them again. It was decided to go to a two buck limit with the first buck having a green gross score of 125" or be 3 1/2 or older, either or, and then a second buck could be killed contingent that it scored more than the first buck. That scenario had never happened until this year. For the first time ever, a member killed two bucks. The first one was 140" eight pointer, and the second one was 143" ten pointer. Both bucks have been posted on here for the entire TN community to view this year.

Since the original posting, the deer that prompted me to ask the question, turned out to be a 4 1/2 year old deer, which reinforces what BSK has been saying, you can't judge the age of a deer by the rack. This deer, based on the historical data that has be maintained on this property (base circumfrence, tine length, overall mass, dressed body weight, etc) did not indicate this deer was anything but 2 1/2. The jaw bone told a completely different story, and thus the hunter that shot it, shot a legal buck on our property.

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#553313 - 01/07/08 01:49 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10527
Loc: Warren Co

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 Originally Posted By: Highland
WOW! Chicken Litter - remind me not to get on your bad side. I hope you don't make a mistake in the hunting woods with that kind of policy. Our club is made up of friends, and yours sounds like it is a military training facility.

That is a little too much for me, it is still deer hunting, which is suppose to be about fun and good friends. We are wanting to curtail the harvesting of 2 1/2 year old bucks, not put the shooter on trial.

But thanks for sharing your opinion.


I agree, I just dont want a "trophy" bad enough to loose a friend over a deer. To each their own I guess.
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#553325 - 01/07/08 01:59 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Highland]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Highland
Since the original posting, the deer that prompted me to ask the question, turned out to be a 4 1/2 year old deer, which reinforces what BSK has been saying, you can't judge the age of a deer by the rack. This deer, based on the historical data that has be maintained on this property (base circumfrence, tine length, overall mass, dressed body weight, etc) did not indicate this deer was anything but 2 1/2. The jaw bone told a completely different story, and thus the hunter that shot it, shot a legal buck on our property.


And that situation is why I like to see clubs add "...or any buck 'X' years old" into their harvest rules. That allows the harvest of whatever age buck the hunters are managing for regardless of antler size.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#553349 - 01/07/08 02:19 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: BSK]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 16577
Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...

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it would be so nice if everyone in a club could properly age a deer. it would be like a world with no crime.

theory and realty are always two different answers. the goofy ones are always on the theory idea and the common sense people know what will really happen. sorta like living in a flood zone in New Orleans. reguardless of what they do to the levees, they will breach again someday.
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#553723 - 01/07/08 06:02 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Chaneylake]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4047
Loc: Tennessee

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How is your clubs buck/doe ratio? Are yall killing enough does to keep a healthy herd on your 1000 acres.

EVERY club I have been involved with talks a good game, but few do the recommended doe reduction for fear that there may be a shooter buck nearby. Afterall, who wants to pay good money for a QDM club and kill does???

EDUCATION is definitely the key to protecting your 2.5 year old bucks. Even the BEST and most experienced deer hunters will screw up occasionally so I wouldn't sweat a couple 2.5 year olds. I would suggest you mandate a couple doe kills before they can fill another buck tag where applicable. This might mean holding off until muzzleloader season or a Juvi hunt or whatever.

What County in S.E. Tn. are we talking here???

102
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#553918 - 01/07/08 07:43 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Chaneylake]
Mountain Buck
Spike


Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 23
Loc: TN, Marion County

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Post a picture of the teeth & rack so we can see the difference.
I think a lot of times we all say 2.5 years old when we see an average rack size.

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#554199 - 01/07/08 10:01 PM Re: QDM Club Penalties [Re: Mountain Buck]
canyonman
Spike


Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 82
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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I can answer these questions since the club is on my property in hamilton county.
Our buck/doe ratio is around 2.3 does per buck.We kill on average 2 does per buck each year.
From 1987 to 2004 we allowed1 buck per hunter and we killed on average 3 bucks per year,with most of these being 21/2 yrs old.
In 2005 we went to 2 bucks per hunter,with the first buck min.of 125 in. gross or 31/2 yrs old ,this allowed you to receive your 2nd buck.If it did not meet the min. you lost your 2nd buck.
Since we have gone to two bucks we have killed (4) 2 1/2yr old (4)3 1/2 yr olds (3)4 1/2 yr olds (1)5 1/2 and (1) 7 1/2 yr old.
In 3yrs we have increased our harvest of mature bucks by raising the buck limits.As far as penalties for breaking the rules .No deer is worth losing the friendships that are made with my fellow hunters.

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