Tndeer Logo

Page 11 of 12 « First<89101112>
Topic Options
#528719 - 12/14/07 01:59 PM Re: Shooter? [Re: BSK]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64800
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
And what woodchuckc was proposed--one seemingly unrelated genetic trait linked to another--is not at all that uncommon. Geneticists are finding more and more of these patterns.

In an enclosed environment (high-fence) you could very well be doing some unexpected harm by artificially attempting to select for or against a particular genetic trait.

It is now well established in deer DNA parentage studies (who is the father of individual deer in a herd), that Nature does not select for large antlers (large-antlered bucks do not produce more offspring than smaller antlered bucks). If Nature does not select for this, then it may be a questionable practice to do so artificially.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#528730 - 12/14/07 02:06 PM Re: Shooter? [Re: BSK]
woodchuckc
8 Point


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1792
Loc: Hickman County, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
HunterHaas,

UGA did the same study and when looking at just the heritability from the male (sire) line, the numbers came up near zero except for one trait, and I think it was beam length.

However, when looking at the numbers from the mother's (da) line, the numbers showed a very strong link.



Thanks for posting that, BSK. I thought I remembered you posting some information along those lines before, but I didn't have a clear enough recollection of it to risk misquoting it. That is precisely the type of data that addresses this question. Without knowing all the parameters of the data collection in that study, it seems to me to be pretty strong evidence for a strong maternal linkage. I'm sure that you know better than me how hard it is to control population studies. It is hard enough to minimize biases and uncontrolled variables in the laboratory situations I work in, let alone in a situation like this with animals in an uncontrolled environment.

Someday just for grins I'd like to sit down over a brewski or two and tell you about some adventures I had doing studies on seasonal metabolic rates in big and little brown bats I did as a graduate student in the copper mines of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan - I think you might get a kick out of it.

Top
#528762 - 12/14/07 02:29 PM Re: Shooter? [Re: woodchuckc]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64800
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: woodchuckc
Someday just for grins I'd like to sit down over a brewski or two and tell you about some adventures I had doing studies on seasonal metabolic rates in big and little brown bats I did as a graduate student in the copper mines of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan - I think you might get a kick out of it.


That would be interesting! But can I bring along my sister as an "interpreter?" That's where I get my "genetics" knowledge from. She is a Vanderbilt PhD in genetics (microbiology) and worked on the Human Genome Project. She is now a research coordinator for a drug company working on genetically oriented cancer drugs.

She could share her stories of some of her college genetics work where she had to go around and pick up road-killed mice in Nebraska!
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#529218 - 12/14/07 09:56 PM Re: Shooter? [Re: BSK]
Stick'n'String
10 Point


Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 2688
Loc: Nashville

Offline
Bryan,

Maybe you remember the details a little better than I about the research Dr. Hellickson did at the SEDSGM in Baton Rouge two years ago. If I remember correctly they culled EVERY spike and buck that was >4.5 and had 8 points or less over several years in hopes of increasing B&C scores. However, I think the results either showed no significant improvement or actually negative results.

In a high fence situation I could see the benefit of a culling program as you can control dispersal and herd numbers. However, I still theink the primary benefits would be due to food availability.

In a free range herd there are far too many other variables that need to be addressed before genetics should be even a thought and even then I doubt you'd be able to change much. I'd recommend everyone read BSK's article "Plugging the Lowest Hole in The Bucket" its a good one ;\)
_________________________

>>>--------->

Top
#529360 - 12/15/07 06:34 AM Re: Shooter? [Re: Stick'n'String]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64800
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
Mickey's research proved--unequivocally in my mind--that culling will not work in a free-ranging herd.

Now I think inside a high fence it may produce improvements, but in a free-ranging herd, no.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#529945 - 12/15/07 10:43 PM Re: Shooter? [Re: BSK]
Tiny
16 Point


Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 17737
Loc: Knoxville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Just curious, which QDMers would shoot this buck and which wouldn't? And by the way, he's just a big 6-pointer.



Would depend on the regs or the rules were I was hunting at,but BANG most likely.

Now that I went and read through all of this one,BANG on the second without question.


Edited by Tiny (12/15/07 11:06 PM)
_________________________
Have a Great Day and God Bless

God Answers Prayers Yes No or Not Yet









Top
#532059 - 12/18/07 07:09 AM Re: Shooter? [Re: ]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64800
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
What are the harvest rules for chaney lake?
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#532253 - 12/18/07 09:47 AM Re: Shooter? [Re: BSK]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



chaney lake current rules are as follows.
juvenile hunter who has never tagged a deer, this means even on another piece of property can kill anything that they want on their first tag. then they play with the big boys.

our buck rule is that a buck must have at least 3 points on one side and the brow tine does not count as a point.

we try to harvest 2-3 does per buck.

we know that the above is not on the high end of QDM. at the same time i know that most of the members of this club have to have some exact guideline to go by. this so far has worked the best for us.

kill for current season
11 bucks all 8 point or better largest 8 point 149 BC gross
200 lb live wt no teeth

smallest 8 point 89 BC gross

20 does as of 12/15/07

Top
#532290 - 12/18/07 10:10 AM Re: Shooter? [Re: Anonymous]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64800
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
What are the ages of those bucks; i.e. what percent yearling, 2 1/2, 3 1/2, etc.?
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#532807 - 12/18/07 05:08 PM Re: Shooter? [Re: BSK]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 16495
Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...

Offline
the rules at chaney lake are as follows:
if a juvenile has never killed a deer before then he/she can kill anything that they wish. then they abide by the following

bucks must have 3 points on one side not counting brow tine.
we try to harvest 2-3 does per buck. i want the does as early as possible.

other than 2-4 quality hunters, guys that can really tell as what to shoot, i have found that the above is the best solution
to growing larger bucks on this piece of property.

this tract of land is 2600 acres, all hardwood timber, that has been select cut for the past 80 years.

so far this season 11 bucks 20 does

the largest buck weighed 200 lb live weight
scored 149 B@C gross 8 point 22 in inside 16.5 tip to tip
only teeth he had was his front teeth

10 point B@C 144 1/8 gross 3.5 yrs old
10 point B@C 131 4/8 gross 3.5 yrs old
9 point B@C 126 4/8 gross 3.5 yrs old
9 point B@C 109 0/8 gross 3.5 yrs old
balance are 8 points averaging about 90 +/-
_________________________
"Don't piss down my back and tell me its rain", Fletcher, Outlaw Josey Wales

Living somewhere between this world and the other, Legends of the Fall

Top
Page 11 of 12 « First<89101112>


Moderator:  Bobby G, Unicam, CBU93, stretch, Kimber45, Mrs.Unicam, Crappie Luck 
Hop to:
Top Posters
4104872
RUGER
86275
Deer Assassin
64800
BSK
60462
Crappie Luck
51375
spitndrum
Newest Members
two1980, Darrenduhl, 2winsrus, jacmac, Smokeymtnbow
13101 Registered Users
Who's Online
101 registered (remmag, griz01, wskp11, lung-buster, Jaye, UTGrad, 15 invisible) and 108 anonymous users online.
Forum Stats
13101 Members
42 Forums
88823 Topics
1039158 Posts

Max Online: 788 @ 11/11/13 08:06 PM
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Forum Donations
The TnDeer.Com Deer Talk Forum is for Tennessee Deer Hunters by Tennessee Deer Hunters. If you enjoy using our Talk Forum and would like to contribute to help in it's up-keep. Just submit your contribution by clicking on the DONATE button below and paying with PayPal or a major credit card. Any amount is much appreciated. Thanks for your support!

TN Burn Safe

Generated in 0.254 seconds in which 0.002 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.