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#517813 - 12/05/07 05:32 PM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: deerchaser007]
hard county
6 Point


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 558
Loc: hornsby tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: deerchaser007
 Originally Posted By: hard county
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: hard county
in areas which are not hunted, supplemental feeding would be a good idea,


I strongly disagree with that comment.

why?


unsafe supplemental feeding practices lead to the spread of disease in wildlife

i dont use a "spin" type feeder, i use a trough, not only does this keep the small animals from eating the feed, it also prevents the type of disease spread you are talking about. correct me if im wrong, but i believe the disease you are talking about is caused by deer accidentally ingesting waste.
_________________________
"The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual."
John Muir

"The mountains are calling and I must go."
John Muir

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#518017 - 12/05/07 07:24 PM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: hard county]
In_my_sights
6 Point


Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 962
Loc: Macon,Davidson, and anywhere e...

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 Originally Posted By: hard county
 Originally Posted By: deerchaser007
 Originally Posted By: hard county
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: hard county
in areas which are not hunted, supplemental feeding would be a good idea,


I strongly disagree with that comment.

why?


unsafe supplemental feeding practices lead to the spread of disease in wildlife

i dont use a "spin" type feeder, i use a trough, not only does this keep the small animals from eating the feed, it also prevents the type of disease spread you are talking about. correct me if im wrong, but i believe the disease you are talking about is caused by deer accidentally ingesting waste.


Use the search engine within this forum. Search for supplemental feeding or corn and you will have about 3 days worth of reading. It is due to a mold on the corn Aflotoxin (sp?) They also spread other diseases because of feeding in group. Kind of like one bad apple ruins the bunch. Many disagree on the subject but hearing it from a biologist kind of convinced me to never even start. They also kill turkeys easier than deer. I have experienced that first hand.
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#518198 - 12/05/07 08:28 PM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: In_my_sights]
hard county
6 Point


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 558
Loc: hornsby tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: In_my_sights
 Originally Posted By: hard county
 Originally Posted By: deerchaser007
 Originally Posted By: hard county
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: hard county
in areas which are not hunted, supplemental feeding would be a good idea,


I strongly disagree with that comment.

why?


unsafe supplemental feeding practices lead to the spread of disease in wildlife

i dont use a "spin" type feeder, i use a trough, not only does this keep the small animals from eating the feed, it also prevents the type of disease spread you are talking about. correct me if im wrong, but i believe the disease you are talking about is caused by deer accidentally ingesting waste.


Use the search engine within this forum. Search for supplemental feeding or corn and you will have about 3 days worth of reading. It is due to a mold on the corn Aflotoxin (sp?) They also spread other diseases because of feeding in group. Kind of like one bad apple ruins the bunch. Many disagree on the subject but hearing it from a biologist kind of convinced me to never even start. They also kill turkeys easier than deer. I have experienced that first hand.

when using livestock suitable corn or record rack corn the corn is tested to have less than 20 parts per billion the lowest quanitity aflatoxin infested deer was 800 parts per billion, so if you immediately feed, then you should hev no problem, or if you want to play it even more safe, use a mix of the meals i have listed, rice-bran or pellets
_________________________
"The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual."
John Muir

"The mountains are calling and I must go."
John Muir

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#518265 - 12/05/07 08:58 PM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: hard county]
In_my_sights
6 Point


Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 962
Loc: Macon,Davidson, and anywhere e...

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Or you could plant food plots, trees beneficial to wildlife, improve habitat and save money to boot. All with better results. Deer do not need food from a bag. If they want food they will find it.
Just my 2 cents.
Disclaimer:
I am not a biologist.
_________________________
http://www.xpercominc.com

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#518294 - 12/05/07 09:11 PM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: In_my_sights]
hard county
6 Point


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 558
Loc: hornsby tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: In_my_sights
Or you could plant food plots, trees beneficial to wildlife, improve habitat and save money to boot. All with better results. Deer do not need food from a bag. If they want food they will find it.
Just my 2 cents.
Disclaimer:
I am not a biologist.

plots are great, (i have around ten aces planted) and you cant substitute them with feed, but for this mid-late winter it might be a good idea to put something out.
_________________________
"The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual."
John Muir

"The mountains are calling and I must go."
John Muir

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#518474 - 12/06/07 08:08 AM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: hard county]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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hard country,

Supplemental feeding is a very dangrous practice, not only from a "disease spread" issue, but also an aflatoxin issue (and corn with less than 20 PBB can jump to hundreds of PBB in a few days), but most importantly from a herd health/density issue. I can point you to some very, very detailed synopsies listing many problems with supplemental feeding.

I do not supplementally feed any of the herds I manage in the MidSouth and I do not recommend it for this area. It is a very dangerous practice.

And by the way, a trough feeder is the fastest way to spread contagious disease.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#518507 - 12/06/07 08:33 AM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: BSK]
remington
4 Point


Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 237
Loc: Roanoke Rapids N.C. USA

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I gotta question about aflatoxin.
What if the corn you put out was on the cob that was just harvested from a field on the property you hunt. You put it out but spread it out very wide. Would that be any different than the corn the deer are picking up out of the field already?

I put out corn maily for the trail camera(it's legal to bait in NC) but we have put out tons of it over the years at bait piles and I honestly have never seen where it helps as far as hunting goes or hurts as far as health goes. Although it could be hurting and you just don't realize it.

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#518580 - 12/06/07 09:22 AM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: remington]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: remington
I gotta question about aflatoxin.
What if the corn you put out was on the cob that was just harvested from a field on the property you hunt. You put it out but spread it out very wide. Would that be any different than the corn the deer are picking up out of the field already?


Is it any different? No. But even standing corn can contain aflatoxin. However, once the warm, humid weather of summer is over, the growth of aflatoxin-producing mold slows dramatically, hence fall/winter corn isn't anywhere near the problem summer corn is.


 Quote:
I put out corn maily for the trail camera(it's legal to bait in NC) but we have put out tons of it over the years at bait piles and I honestly have never seen where it helps as far as hunting goes or hurts as far as health goes. Although it could be hurting and you just don't realize it.


"Although it could be hurting and you just don't realize it." And THAT'S the problem. Hunters/managers think they would notice a problem if one existed. I can tell you from experience, they won't.

I've used this example repeatedly, but it's the best one I can think of:

In a normal TN deer herd, there are probably 6-10 fawns that die of natural causes ever year per square mile. Now lets say you've hunted/worked with a property 20 years. In those 20 years, how many dead fawns have you ever found? In those 20 years, there would have been 120-200 dead fawns per square mile.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#518939 - 12/06/07 04:22 PM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: BSK]
hard county
6 Point


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 558
Loc: hornsby tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
hard country,

Supplemental feeding is a very dangrous practice, not only from a "disease spread" issue, but also an aflatoxin issue (and corn with less than 20 PBB can jump to hundreds of PBB in a few days), but most importantly from a herd health/density issue. I can point you to some very, very detailed synopsies listing many problems with supplemental feeding.

I do not supplementally feed any of the herds I manage in the MidSouth and I do not recommend it for this area. It is a very dangerous practice.

And by the way, a trough feeder is the fastest way to spread contagious disease.

i will continue to supplemental feed because i have had good results.
less than half of our feed is corn and we devote 10 acres to food plots, 5 of these are year round perennials. not only have i not observed much of a spike in the density, i have not observed extensive feeding period! the deer ate all they wanted last year from late january to february and again from june to august and i put out only 400 hundred pounds. 50 in cottonseed meal, 50 in soybean meal, 100 in protein nuggetts, and 200 in corn. our deer stayed fat and healthy and we documented three sets of triplets at least who survived until winter. also of merit, we had no casualties found from ehd, coincidence? maybe, but healthier deer have stronger immune systems and i believe it helped.
if aflatoxin was the threat that everyone said it was then i dont believe grains would be feed to livestock at all.
as for the trough thing, i actually am friends with an ag major who i consulted about what to construct a feeder from. he said that wooden side boards (to prevent cutting), any hard, smooth bottom (we used a sheet of high density 1/8 inch plastic) along with a roof over it at least 6' high (we used metal) was the best way to go.
the feed stays dry, i can pick up the plastic board and wipe off at any point and i genuinely believe that it is a fairly disease free zone. (i would eat out of it!)
i would appreciate any synopsis you have to point me away from supplemental feeding, but i cant just take your word for it. there are just to many other experts who believe in it who also make their living at this stuff.
it might interest you to know that i have had people try to talk me out of using food plots for the same deer-density problems you have discussed hear.
_________________________
"The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual."
John Muir

"The mountains are calling and I must go."
John Muir

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#520339 - 12/07/07 02:23 PM Re: Making up for the lack of nutrition 2007 [Re: hard county]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6642
Loc: Nashville

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Just so you know...

TWRA strongly discourages the supplemental feeding of all wildlife (see page 24 of the Hunting Guide).

Here's a reference for you regarding baiting practices: Artificial Feeding and Baiting of Wildlife
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If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.

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