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#515033 - 12/03/07 02:47 PM Rutting Behavior
Oak
Spike


Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Lawrence Cty

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As most of you have noted, we've had a very strange year when it comes to predicting the rut. I've read several articles here and from other sources reguarding the moon phase and other factors that influence rutting activity

Question: I know that when it comes to breeding, a buck generally doesn't care when, how, or what is occurring ... they "generally" have one thing on their mind ... breeding \:\)

However, do you all think that due the loss of natural browse (winter months) and more importantly, the mast crop failures will cause does not to come into heat? Especially when they know that they will have to carry a fawn throught the winter months.

This would almost explain why bucks seem to be cruising more (at least from what I've experienced) and chasing less. Especially over the last several days.

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#515088 - 12/03/07 04:09 PM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: Oak]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4257
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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What RUT?? A normal rut occurs within a short window,.. usually a week. You have pre rut and post rut. How many times have you seen true rut? I mean a buck in TRUE rut?? I've seen bucks chasing does around and seen bucks cruising for does, seen bucks fight and spar,.. but this is all pre rut activity. True rut is unmistakable. A buck will stink to high heaven, never stop grunting, and never take his eyes off 1 specific doe. He follows her in toe til she is ready. Thats true rut. AND,.. i've never seen it 1 time since i've hunted. My brother has,.. and i know others who have,. but that is the true rut.

For the most part,.. i don't think the majority of TN ever see's true rut due to skewed ratio's. And other factors of course. When is the last time you ever seen does drop at the same time. In true rut,.. most does will drop their fawns within that 200 day window of when they were breed. Does in TN drop from may to september. You can say 2nd rut,.. but the window should still not be a 4 month gap of when they drop their fawns.

I think the rut last from november til febuary for the most part in this state. Does not cycling like in a normal herd,.. but does coming in all the time throughout them months. With this said,.. i think this puts much more stress on the bucks. In turn,.. causing many bucks to die in the winter months. I think this is a huge factor to why some qdm hunters are passing bucks year after year , but not seeing the bucks mature. With TN's harvest reports thru TWRA there is no reason why we don't have a ton of older age class bucks walking around. BUT,. hunters are not killing them nor seeing them to reflect in older age class harvest. AND,.. its my opinion,.. they are dying of stress from a long rut cycle.

SO,.. to answer your question,.. i'm seeing the same i see every year. I hear people report all the time that the rut is on, i seen a buck chasing a doe. BUT,.. this occurs from november til febuary. Were if they seen true rut,.. they would have seen every buck at the same time in toe of a doe. In true rut,.. you could sit in a stand and observe several bucks in toe of different does any givin day of that window. It just don't happen in TN from my observations.

Like i said,.. its my opinion. I have no data to back this up. Just years of thinking about it, years of observation, and studying up on what true rut is suppose to be in a normal herd.
_________________________
QDMA member...Cannon co.
Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
(Minquass)

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#515120 - 12/03/07 04:42 PM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: deerchaser007]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65056
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: deerchaser007
What RUT?? A normal rut occurs within a short window,.. usually a week. You have pre rut and post rut. How many times have you seen true rut? I mean a buck in TRUE rut??


Ever year since I began practicing QDM, with the exception of this year.

It has been noted in scientific literature that 1) unhealthy or physically stressed does will enter estrus later than normal; and 2) acorn failures in acorn-driven deer herds (herds that rely heavily on fall acorn production) can reduce doe health enough to produce a late and strung-out rut (trickle rut).

The problem is, I've seen many total acorn failures in the past and none of them influenced rut timing like we are seeing this year. I think the bizarre rut (or lack of one) that we're seeing this year is a rare anomaly produced by the combination of late spring freeze, record-breaking drought, record-breaking heat, severe EHD outbreak, and acorn failure that have all occurred in the same year. As I've suggested previously, this may be a once in a 50 to 100-year event.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#515147 - 12/03/07 05:04 PM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: BSK]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4257
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: deerchaser007
What RUT?? A normal rut occurs within a short window,.. usually a week. You have pre rut and post rut. How many times have you seen true rut? I mean a buck in TRUE rut??


Ever year since I began practicing QDM, with the exception of this year.




Yep,.. i'm jealous...........
_________________________
QDMA member...Cannon co.
Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
(Minquass)

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#515197 - 12/03/07 06:12 PM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: ]
kholmes
4 Point


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 280
Loc: Nashville

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Yep this year SUCKS. A couple of rubs a couple of scrapes. I have pretty much given up on seeing a good buck. Maybe the does will keep cooperating and showing up so I can kill a few of them now that our season is about to open up.
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A vote is like a rifle: Its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.
Theodore Roosevelt


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#515587 - 12/03/07 10:39 PM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: BSK]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



i may be crazy, but i still get the feeling we are on schedule around here. now seeing good bucks cruising alone again, after several days dissappearing completely or an occassional sighting with a doe(lockdown). this followed a few reported estrous chases and some cruising. the odd thing around here is less scraping than normal, but almost no rubbing until the last few days. also, the deer seemed to be showing up in completely different areas in many cases, abandoning normal hangouts, possibly food driven. pre-lockdown daytime sightings were way off as well, but i just think it was going on at night for some reason. the only thing i have no feedback on is reports of actual doe breeding. i know it's rare to see, but i haven't heard of any at all. i haven't seen it mentioned here either. another reason i think this is a lot of big deer were killed around here last week, which is normal for the end of november when the big boys turn the first round of does loose. just my gut feeling.
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#515594 - 12/03/07 10:55 PM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: BSK]
Oak
Spike


Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Lawrence Cty

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I agree BSK ...

This year, after observing several of the same does over and over, they have yet to show any appearance of coming into heat. Especially if you rely on tarsal glands. I'm just now noticing a "browning" of the tarsal glands on does around our lease in Humphreys.

I just have a gut feeling that if a doe has to carry a young one around for a few months and then feed it through the summer, that her biological sense will kick in and she may or may not come into heat.

On a side note, I wonder how many of us would have made it through 60s and 70s when it was hard to see a deer in TN (I know, I know, some of you did .. \:\) We may just have a few years ahead of us where we don't see or harvest as many.

Oh, I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the squirrels too... they are going to have a rough winter.

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#515678 - 12/04/07 07:14 AM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: Oak]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65056
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
It will be interesting to see if hunters see a more active second rut. One possibility is that the does were too stressed to reach full estrus the first time around hence come into estrus on their second cycle.

At least we can hope...
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#515750 - 12/04/07 08:06 AM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: BSK]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27527
Loc: TN

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Bad mast years such as this one, almost always have a weaker rut!
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#515812 - 12/04/07 09:09 AM Re: Rutting Behavior [Re: Winchester]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65056
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
Weaker yes Winchester, but no rut at all? I've never seen anything like this year.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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