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#499249 - 11/19/07 02:19 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: REN]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10527
Loc: Warren Co

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Bammer boy,

See some hunters will never get to that level. IT took years for you to get to the level you are and you are blessed with an excellent property to hunt.

Most "average" hunters will never get there. Not enough time, no access to good property, or a half baked QDM program based on TV show "let me sell you some seed" wisdom and "on my property" anecdotal evidence.

I saw that same "bucks of Tecomate" episode you were talking about this weekend and what a bucket of crapola. That is an intensely Trophy managed property and they were slinging QDM around like you could expect similar results.

Oh and one other note about why QDM will likely be a disaster on public lands in coming years. Hunter numbers and dwindling public land. Less places to hunt, more guys on the same property = Fewer bucks.
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If you can't trust people with freedom, how can you trust them with power ?




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#499365 - 11/19/07 03:09 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: fishboy1]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
12 Point


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5339
Loc: Wilson County, TN

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I guess my overall point is, with all the information so avalible today to all hunters the common sense/QDM research should be so easy to do. Yet AS A WHOLE i dont think we have much more knowledge then my parents had growing up. When i was a kid i asked every person i knew that hunted to explain everything they could to me. I always asked what happened during their hunt (ie how many deer, what time, which way where they headed, where did they come from, what was their behavior like....ect...ect) because i wanted to learn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Then i went to college and majored in Foresty and wildlife biology because i just could not get enough of it. Even today I ask those same questions to anyone i can because i think you can never know enough. The more you know about a species the more you respect and come to love them. Its not all about killing, to me its hunting an animal i have Immense respect and love for. Dont get me wrong i still get BUCK FEVER (which if i ever quit getting i will stop hunting) as much as the next but it is a different feeling to me now. Its not so much the fear of missing or not getting a shot, its more of all the work i did payed off and here is my Opportunity.

You dont have to hunt everyday to want to learn about the animal you are hunting. As I started this thread with how much information is so readily available today it is disappointing to me how uneducated some hunters are.

***disclaimer***
The veiws above are strickly the views of the person writing it and in no way is referenced to anyone inparticular.
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RollTide

John 3:16



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#499428 - 11/19/07 04:08 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: fishboy1]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4258
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
 Originally Posted By: deerchaser007
 Originally Posted By: fishboy1




The problem is YOU. You come on a QDM forum looking to prove we are managing for trophy's. You ain't got a clue.

For one,.. read my post. I've never mentioned not one word about big antlers. You got that all made up in your head cause thats the way you wanna see. BUT,.. do not judge me my man ,. you don't know me.

BSK,s post said pretty much the same as mine ,.. why is he so right and i'm so wrong?? You looking to start something here?

Whats my goal. Its to provide the best habitat and produce the best results i can acheive in my area through harvest and management of age structure and keep the herd within its carrying capacity.. Thats my goal for my property,.. the neighbors don't have the luxury to touch the habitat cause some lease the land. BUT,.. they all want better deer and better bucks. The past 2 years they have been a 3.5 and a 4.5 year old buck killed by all us. The 4.5 last year was shot opening of mz and was the second oldest deer checked at the checking station that weekend from the TWRA. For myself and my neighbors,.. we were all happy for this accomplishment. Cause we are manageing for better age class,. and we are getting it. That 4.5 year old buck was only around a 120 class buck. SO,. don't throw your trophy crap in our faces. Its not a trophy under most folks view,.. but a 4.5 year old in this county,.. TROPHY!!

And please don't make me compare MS to TN. Come on dude,. you can figure that out. Its not rocket science. The soil is different and MS can have upwards of 60 to 80 deer per square mile on that soil. Just how much overharvest do you expect in that situation. My area has around a 20 to 25 deer per square mile and poor cherty soil. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,.. can you see it??

Anything else i can help you with?? Its obvious you have not got it yet,.. so keep on asking!!


Sorry to have gotten your nickers in a bunch.

What I am trying to do is get people to understand is that there is more than one way to see things, and the QDM bunch is doing a poor job in many instances of making their case to the general public.

I think that QDM is wonderful on private managed properties. I think it will eventually be a disaster on public lands and for the "average" hunter with limited time and access.

What fun is hunting if you dont see and kill deer occasionally? I would not spend the number of days/hours in the woods that I do if I almost never saw any deer and only had the opportunity to kill a deer once every year or three. Unfortunately that is the reality for the "average" hunter who only kills a deer every 2.5years.

If you try and jam QDM down his throat by season limits or by social pressure (telling him to let the little ones pass or slamming them for taking a small buck) then at some point the average hunter will reject the idea of QDM all together. OR worse, they will quit hunting and the hunting community will get smaller and weaker. Neither is a good result.


Heres how you should have worded it for the 3 or 4 time a year hunter. If your gonna say it , say it right.
What fun is hunting if you don't see and kill BUCKS occasionally? I would not spend the number of days/hours in the woods that i do if i almost never saw any BUCK and only had the oppurtunity to kill a BUCK once every 2 to 3 years.Unfortunately, that is reality for the average hunter who only kills a BUCK every 2.5 years.

The average hunter is gonna reject qdm cause he is not worried about DEER harvest,.. he is worried about BUCK harvest. Average hunters are not gonna kill a doe to save their life. Mainly because they still believe the more deer we have,. the more oppurtunity they have. You cannot make them understand that with proper management ,. they can kil more deer and see more deer. I didn't say bucks,. i said deer. BUT,. they are not interested in deer,. just horns. They are just as horn crazy as any trophy hunter. At least a trophy hunter will kill a doe.

In other words,.. they are living in the restoration age and age of traditional management. That ain't gonna cut it any longer. We have to have some kind of management in place to control the population. Not only private,.. but public land also. If you loose a few hunters ,. thats how it goes. The management of the deer population should be first and foremost. If they can't except it,. oh well. We will tell them i told you so when its all said and done.

BUT,. like your stat says,.. they kill a deer every 2.5 years. Why is it its a 1.5 year old buck every 2.5 year?? At that rate,. they should be harvesting a 2.5 year old buck every 2.5 years!!

At some point and time you must tell a hunter who only hunts 3 to 4 times a year that you cannot expect to see deer by the tons every time. The habitat cannot support it in TN. You would be surprised at the number of them that understands that. And they especially understand it when you tell them its called HUNTING,.. not KILLING!! And we shouldn't have to have 100 deer per square mile just so a hunter can go out 1 time and say he hunted a got a deer. Sometimes ,. you actually have to HUNT!!

Thats my opinion,...
By the way ,. sorry for my rudeness earlier. I was cranky yesterday from a poor weekend of HUNTING deer.
_________________________
QDMA member...Cannon co.
Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
(Minquass)

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#499641 - 11/19/07 06:37 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: deerchaser007]
TAS
6 Point


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Hickman County

Offline
How much time scouting, and working for deer season to open does a 3 to 4 times a year hunter put in? You can't expect them to present themselves broadside to you if you don't do your homework.

The future of hunting is in the hands of the people who think and work on it year round. Most people who only go 3 to 4 times a year probably wouldn't miss it that much.

Hey fishboy I see in one of the fishing threads that someone is advocating releasing fish so they will get LARGER!!!! What is this world coming to???? You better go check it out! \:D
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#499694 - 11/19/07 07:17 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: TAS]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: TAS
How much time scouting, and working for deer season to open does a 3 to 4 times a year hunter put in? You can't expect them to present themselves broadside to you if you don't do your homework.

The future of hunting is in the hands of the people who think and work on it year round. Most people who only go 3 to 4 times a year probably wouldn't miss it that much.

Hey fishboy I see in one of the fishing threads that someone is advocating releasing fish so they will get LARGER!!!! What is this world coming to???? You better go check it out! \:D


\:D

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#499732 - 11/19/07 07:35 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: ]
oneshothc
4 Point


Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 312
Loc: New Market, Tn.

Offline
I agree with TAS.........hunters don't think of deer as mine or yours! If you are doing it right on your piece of ground, why worry about what the neighbors are doing? Let them shoot the young/little guys all the while, your place will be the hang-out for the older/bigger guys!
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If you are losin'.....change the rules!

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#500127 - 11/20/07 04:49 AM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: oneshothc]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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I practice QDM on the small properties I hunt , along with the clubs I have been in . On the 170 acre tract I hunt , the landowner will shoot nearly any buck that walks past , but he is slowly seeing the benifits of passing up smaller bucks as he took a 9 pt. last season .
He is one of the 3 or 4 times a year hunters , but I won't hold it agains't him if his standards differ from mine . I can influence him ,and I think I have done that over time .
Promote the positive aspects of QDM , and don't force feed it to those who don't want to listen .And like I said in my previous post , don't catagorize other hunters and base their abilities on their harvest standards .
Practicing QDM doesn't make a expert hunter .
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#500203 - 11/20/07 07:32 AM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: TAS]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10527
Loc: Warren Co

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TAS
How much time scouting, and working for deer season to open does a 3 to 4 times a year hunter put in? You can't expect them to present themselves broadside to you if you don't do your homework.

The future of hunting is in the hands of the people who think and work on it year round. Most people who only go 3 to 4 times a year probably wouldn't miss it that much.

Hey fishboy I see in one of the fishing threads that someone is advocating releasing fish so they will get LARGER!!!! What is this world coming to???? You better go check it out! \:D


Ok so what you sound like you are saying is that a 3-4 weekend a year hunter does not deserve a buck because he does not put the same amount of time and effort into his hunting as the die hard QDM guys.

So you want him to stop shooting small bucks, AND you dont think he deserves a big one since he doesn't hunt enough in your eyes, but he is supposed to keep hunting and like it or "quit hunting and not miss it that much".

That is exactly the elitist attitude that will backfire against hunters and especially the QDM or quit hunting crowd.

Guys, We need every hunter we can get to be out buying a license, enjoying the sport, and helping to keep our traditions alive. Without the average hunter, hunting would be like England where only the rich or privledged will be able to hunt.
_________________________
If you can't trust people with freedom, how can you trust them with power ?




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#500589 - 11/20/07 11:55 AM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: fishboy1]
TAS
6 Point


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Hickman County

Offline
No, don't put words in my mouth. Kholmes was saying how QDM doesn't make em dumber and how he has only killed two in five years of practicing. What I said, I said. Regardless of what kind of management you have, unless your baiting you cannot EXPECT to kill good deer if you don't put in the time scouting and you only go 3 to 4 times a year. When it comes to hunting it is what it is. The more you go the better your chances are.

The future of hunting IS in the hands of the diehard hunter because he is the one that will take the time and effort to work with kids and legislatures. I and one of the property owners next to me open our lands up for the juvenile hunt. They can shoot whatever they want. I don't see anyone that only hunts a couple times a year, building and putting up stands that will seat two in order to invite other peoples kids to hunt for free. Yes I practice QDM and I am a member of QDMA but I let kids and women shoot what they want. Why.. because that's the future of hunting. When the anti's see women and kids hunting it blows the whole beer drinking shoot anything sterotype out the window. I don't let experienced hunters on my propery shoot young bucks because I want to let the ones that the kids miss grow up to balance the herd. You can search all my posts and you will not see where I want to push QDM on anyone with regs or anything else. It is an individuals own decision. Though I will let someone know real quick if they start complaining about there not being any big ol bucks and they are shooting yearlings. I also have problems with contests when it comes to hunting but that's me.

My last statement was a joke and I'm sorry that you took it wrong. I just have a problem with people lumping everyone that practices QDM together. Oh yeah I own 413 acres that I worked my whole life to buy. I live in a single wide trailer right now in order to afford it. I don't think the elite live in single wide mobile homes! \:D
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To truly appreciate deer hunting you have to get off the computer and GO!

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#500693 - 11/20/07 01:04 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: TAS]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TAS
No, don't put words in my mouth. Kholmes was saying how QDM doesn't make em dumber and how he has only killed two in five years of practicing. What I said, I said. Regardless of what kind of management you have, unless your baiting you cannot EXPECT to kill good deer if you don't put in the time scouting and you only go 3 to 4 times a year. When it comes to hunting it is what it is. The more you go the better your chances are.

The future of hunting IS in the hands of the diehard hunter because he is the one that will take the time and effort to work with kids and legislatures. I and one of the property owners next to me open our lands up for the juvenile hunt. They can shoot whatever they want. I don't see anyone that only hunts a couple times a year, building and putting up stands that will seat two in order to invite other peoples kids to hunt for free. Yes I practice QDM and I am a member of QDMA but I let kids and women shoot what they want. Why.. because that's the future of hunting. When the anti's see women and kids hunting it blows the whole beer drinking shoot anything sterotype out the window. I don't let experienced hunters on my propery shoot young bucks because I want to let the ones that the kids miss grow up to balance the herd. You can search all my posts and you will not see where I want to push QDM on anyone with regs or anything else. It is an individuals own decision. Though I will let someone know real quick if they start complaining about there not being any big ol bucks and they are shooting yearlings. I also have problems with contests when it comes to hunting but that's me.

My last statement was a joke and I'm sorry that you took it wrong. I just have a problem with people lumping everyone that practices QDM together. Oh yeah I own 413 acres that I worked my whole life to buy. I live in a single wide trailer right now in order to afford it. I don't think the elite live in single wide mobile homes! \:D




Tim you have a nice farm and have done well managing the habitat as well as the deer herd . You promote the positive aspects of hunting , such as hunting with family more than you do QDM .
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