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#498934 - 11/19/07 10:40 AM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: renegade50]
kholmes
4 Point


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 280
Loc: Nashville

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 Originally Posted By: renegade50
hey, can some one let me come hunt thier qdm land to see what this is all about???? say let me shoot one of your big racked older bucks and i will post on here what my opinon is about the whole thing for free of course... just for some outside neutral opinon on whether or not this qdm stuff is for real or not

QDM doesn't make them any more stupid. 5 yrs practicing and 2 bucks taken, my odds still aren't that great. But they all tipped the scales at about 160lbs. and I have taken some does that were pushing 120lbs. This year should be a good year I did see some serious rut activity Sat. am. 1 doe being chased by 4 bucks. That is something I have only read about before and never witnessed first hand. So I think that is proof that it is really starting to work for us.
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#499021 - 11/19/07 11:23 AM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: kholmes]
renegade50
16 Point


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 14240
Loc: tn

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 Originally Posted By: kholmes
 Originally Posted By: renegade50
hey, can some one let me come hunt thier qdm land to see what this is all about???? say let me shoot one of your big racked older bucks and i will post on here what my opinon is about the whole thing for free of course... just for some outside neutral opinon on whether or not this qdm stuff is for real or not

QDM doesn't make them any more stupid. 5 yrs practicing and 2 bucks taken, my odds still aren't that great. But they all tipped the scales at about 160lbs. and I have taken some does that were pushing 120lbs. This year should be a good year I did see some serious rut activity Sat. am. 1 doe being chased by 4 bucks. That is something I have only read about before and never witnessed first hand. So I think that is proof that it is really starting to work for us.
i will be more than glad to help increase your success stories on your land..... hahahaaaa!!!!! always looking for new spots to try more than willing if ya let me..........
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#499124 - 11/19/07 12:53 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: renegade50]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
12 Point


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5041
Loc: Wilson County, TN

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ok let me see if i can type this and it make sense......

I am very much into the goal of QDM but alot of it is basic deer and wildlife common sense to me. As i have stated in other threads i have done alot of research on DEER along with other wildlife including behavior, ideal habitats and overall species knowledge. I have practiced QDM for years (actually before i knew there was a name for it) so i dont think alot of this is very NEW to some hunters. If you know deer you know what type of habitat is ideal and if you dont have ideal then ways you can make it as close as possble. You would also know about food sources and density and adverse affects it can have. I have always wanted to kill big deer once the KILLER phased passed me by so i did everything i could to produce that oppertunity (and i dont mean just bucks). it is a common thing TO ME to understand too many deer = poor food. Also removing young males unbalances a heard same with females. I have been Fortunate enough to have all these options on 1400 acres of family land with little pressue in a part of AL that is know to produce some FINE bucks. so i guess my question is how do you get these thoughts to people in the senerios below

1. A guy that only hunts a handful of times a year
2. Public land hunters
3. Small acre owners
4. Youngsters just getting started in hunting.

those are the higher % hunters in TN (i would assume) so those are the people that would need to be reached for it to truely be successfull. These hunters IMO would be tough to reach as you can imagine what goes through there heads during a deer hunt and the expectations they set on those hunts.

again i dont think you have to reach out and drill QDM to people but more of common sense hunting if your goal is to upgrade the overall quality of deer on a given piece of property. This also includes the state and how they set up deer regulations each year. If regs are set to not allow you to accomplish the goal then what is the point of having the goal?

anyways thats my thoughts and i dont mean to offend anyone if i did somehow. HAHAHAHA it makes more sense when i say it outloud rather then typing it.
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#499249 - 11/19/07 02:19 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: REN]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10494
Loc: Warren Co

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Bammer boy,

See some hunters will never get to that level. IT took years for you to get to the level you are and you are blessed with an excellent property to hunt.

Most "average" hunters will never get there. Not enough time, no access to good property, or a half baked QDM program based on TV show "let me sell you some seed" wisdom and "on my property" anecdotal evidence.

I saw that same "bucks of Tecomate" episode you were talking about this weekend and what a bucket of crapola. That is an intensely Trophy managed property and they were slinging QDM around like you could expect similar results.

Oh and one other note about why QDM will likely be a disaster on public lands in coming years. Hunter numbers and dwindling public land. Less places to hunt, more guys on the same property = Fewer bucks.
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#499365 - 11/19/07 03:09 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: fishboy1]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
12 Point


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5041
Loc: Wilson County, TN

Offline
I guess my overall point is, with all the information so avalible today to all hunters the common sense/QDM research should be so easy to do. Yet AS A WHOLE i dont think we have much more knowledge then my parents had growing up. When i was a kid i asked every person i knew that hunted to explain everything they could to me. I always asked what happened during their hunt (ie how many deer, what time, which way where they headed, where did they come from, what was their behavior like....ect...ect) because i wanted to learn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Then i went to college and majored in Foresty and wildlife biology because i just could not get enough of it. Even today I ask those same questions to anyone i can because i think you can never know enough. The more you know about a species the more you respect and come to love them. Its not all about killing, to me its hunting an animal i have Immense respect and love for. Dont get me wrong i still get BUCK FEVER (which if i ever quit getting i will stop hunting) as much as the next but it is a different feeling to me now. Its not so much the fear of missing or not getting a shot, its more of all the work i did payed off and here is my Opportunity.

You dont have to hunt everyday to want to learn about the animal you are hunting. As I started this thread with how much information is so readily available today it is disappointing to me how uneducated some hunters are.

***disclaimer***
The veiws above are strickly the views of the person writing it and in no way is referenced to anyone inparticular.
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John 3:16



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#499428 - 11/19/07 04:08 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: fishboy1]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
 Originally Posted By: deerchaser007
 Originally Posted By: fishboy1




The problem is YOU. You come on a QDM forum looking to prove we are managing for trophy's. You ain't got a clue.

For one,.. read my post. I've never mentioned not one word about big antlers. You got that all made up in your head cause thats the way you wanna see. BUT,.. do not judge me my man ,. you don't know me.

BSK,s post said pretty much the same as mine ,.. why is he so right and i'm so wrong?? You looking to start something here?

Whats my goal. Its to provide the best habitat and produce the best results i can acheive in my area through harvest and management of age structure and keep the herd within its carrying capacity.. Thats my goal for my property,.. the neighbors don't have the luxury to touch the habitat cause some lease the land. BUT,.. they all want better deer and better bucks. The past 2 years they have been a 3.5 and a 4.5 year old buck killed by all us. The 4.5 last year was shot opening of mz and was the second oldest deer checked at the checking station that weekend from the TWRA. For myself and my neighbors,.. we were all happy for this accomplishment. Cause we are manageing for better age class,. and we are getting it. That 4.5 year old buck was only around a 120 class buck. SO,. don't throw your trophy crap in our faces. Its not a trophy under most folks view,.. but a 4.5 year old in this county,.. TROPHY!!

And please don't make me compare MS to TN. Come on dude,. you can figure that out. Its not rocket science. The soil is different and MS can have upwards of 60 to 80 deer per square mile on that soil. Just how much overharvest do you expect in that situation. My area has around a 20 to 25 deer per square mile and poor cherty soil. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,.. can you see it??

Anything else i can help you with?? Its obvious you have not got it yet,.. so keep on asking!!


Sorry to have gotten your nickers in a bunch.

What I am trying to do is get people to understand is that there is more than one way to see things, and the QDM bunch is doing a poor job in many instances of making their case to the general public.

I think that QDM is wonderful on private managed properties. I think it will eventually be a disaster on public lands and for the "average" hunter with limited time and access.

What fun is hunting if you dont see and kill deer occasionally? I would not spend the number of days/hours in the woods that I do if I almost never saw any deer and only had the opportunity to kill a deer once every year or three. Unfortunately that is the reality for the "average" hunter who only kills a deer every 2.5years.

If you try and jam QDM down his throat by season limits or by social pressure (telling him to let the little ones pass or slamming them for taking a small buck) then at some point the average hunter will reject the idea of QDM all together. OR worse, they will quit hunting and the hunting community will get smaller and weaker. Neither is a good result.


Heres how you should have worded it for the 3 or 4 time a year hunter. If your gonna say it , say it right.
What fun is hunting if you don't see and kill BUCKS occasionally? I would not spend the number of days/hours in the woods that i do if i almost never saw any BUCK and only had the oppurtunity to kill a BUCK once every 2 to 3 years.Unfortunately, that is reality for the average hunter who only kills a BUCK every 2.5 years.

The average hunter is gonna reject qdm cause he is not worried about DEER harvest,.. he is worried about BUCK harvest. Average hunters are not gonna kill a doe to save their life. Mainly because they still believe the more deer we have,. the more oppurtunity they have. You cannot make them understand that with proper management ,. they can kil more deer and see more deer. I didn't say bucks,. i said deer. BUT,. they are not interested in deer,. just horns. They are just as horn crazy as any trophy hunter. At least a trophy hunter will kill a doe.

In other words,.. they are living in the restoration age and age of traditional management. That ain't gonna cut it any longer. We have to have some kind of management in place to control the population. Not only private,.. but public land also. If you loose a few hunters ,. thats how it goes. The management of the deer population should be first and foremost. If they can't except it,. oh well. We will tell them i told you so when its all said and done.

BUT,. like your stat says,.. they kill a deer every 2.5 years. Why is it its a 1.5 year old buck every 2.5 year?? At that rate,. they should be harvesting a 2.5 year old buck every 2.5 years!!

At some point and time you must tell a hunter who only hunts 3 to 4 times a year that you cannot expect to see deer by the tons every time. The habitat cannot support it in TN. You would be surprised at the number of them that understands that. And they especially understand it when you tell them its called HUNTING,.. not KILLING!! And we shouldn't have to have 100 deer per square mile just so a hunter can go out 1 time and say he hunted a got a deer. Sometimes ,. you actually have to HUNT!!

Thats my opinion,...
By the way ,. sorry for my rudeness earlier. I was cranky yesterday from a poor weekend of HUNTING deer.
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#499641 - 11/19/07 06:37 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: deerchaser007]
TAS
6 Point


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Hickman County

Offline
How much time scouting, and working for deer season to open does a 3 to 4 times a year hunter put in? You can't expect them to present themselves broadside to you if you don't do your homework.

The future of hunting is in the hands of the people who think and work on it year round. Most people who only go 3 to 4 times a year probably wouldn't miss it that much.

Hey fishboy I see in one of the fishing threads that someone is advocating releasing fish so they will get LARGER!!!! What is this world coming to???? You better go check it out! \:D
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#499694 - 11/19/07 07:17 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: TAS]
lostsoul
6 Point


Registered: 07/16/07
Posts: 895
Loc: East TN

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 Originally Posted By: TAS
How much time scouting, and working for deer season to open does a 3 to 4 times a year hunter put in? You can't expect them to present themselves broadside to you if you don't do your homework.

The future of hunting is in the hands of the people who think and work on it year round. Most people who only go 3 to 4 times a year probably wouldn't miss it that much.

Hey fishboy I see in one of the fishing threads that someone is advocating releasing fish so they will get LARGER!!!! What is this world coming to???? You better go check it out! \:D


\:D

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#499732 - 11/19/07 07:35 PM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: lostsoul]
oneshothc
4 Point


Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 312
Loc: New Market, Tn.

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I agree with TAS.........hunters don't think of deer as mine or yours! If you are doing it right on your piece of ground, why worry about what the neighbors are doing? Let them shoot the young/little guys all the while, your place will be the hang-out for the older/bigger guys!
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If you are losin'.....change the rules!

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#500127 - 11/20/07 04:49 AM Re: Is this the Down side to QDM? [Re: oneshothc]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31145
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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I practice QDM on the small properties I hunt , along with the clubs I have been in . On the 170 acre tract I hunt , the landowner will shoot nearly any buck that walks past , but he is slowly seeing the benifits of passing up smaller bucks as he took a 9 pt. last season .
He is one of the 3 or 4 times a year hunters , but I won't hold it agains't him if his standards differ from mine . I can influence him ,and I think I have done that over time .
Promote the positive aspects of QDM , and don't force feed it to those who don't want to listen .And like I said in my previous post , don't catagorize other hunters and base their abilities on their harvest standards .
Practicing QDM doesn't make a expert hunter .
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