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#493473 - 11/14/07 03:31 PM Question for experts
Lucky
Spike


Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Huntsville Albama

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Do the effects of drought effect the timing of rut?
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#493660 - 11/14/07 05:46 PM Re: Question for experts [Re: Lucky]
HOOK
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 05/01/99
Posts: 15754
Loc: Rutherford County, TN

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no
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#494351 - 11/15/07 06:45 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: Lucky]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64846
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Lucky
Do the effects of drought effect the timing of rut?


Darn good question. I have seen no research on this topic, but I'm beginning to wonder. Something is delaying the rut in places this year and I don't know if it is a single factor or a combination of many factors.

We're experiencing what is probably a once in a hundred year event, with all of the "negative" environmental factors coming together in the same year. We had a near record-breaking late freeze in April after a record-breaking warm March (killing manty plants, forcing trees to leaf out twice, and destroying all hard and soft mast in parts of Middle and West TN. Then the same area suffered through the worst drought in recorded history. In addition, the same area experienced the 2nd hottest summer on record. Then this same area suffered from the worst outbreak of EHD in decades.

All of these facors combined in the same year seems to have had some very strange effects. I'm definitely seeing patterns I've never seen before and there are patterns I'm struggling to figure out.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#494424 - 11/15/07 08:03 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: BSK]
WestTn Huntin'man
16 Point


Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 11950
Loc: Benton Co.

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Lucky
Do the effects of drought effect the timing of rut?


Darn good question. I have seen no research on this topic, but I'm beginning to wonder. Something is delaying the rut in places this year and I don't know if it is a single factor or a combination of many factors.

We're experiencing what is probably a once in a hundred year event, with all of the "negative" environmental factors coming together in the same year. We had a near record-breaking late freeze in April after a record-breaking warm March (killing manty plants, forcing trees to leaf out twice, and destroying all hard and soft mast in parts of Middle and West TN. Then the same area suffered through the worst drought in recorded history. In addition, the same area experienced the 2nd hottest summer on record. Then this same area suffered from the worst outbreak of EHD in decades.

All of these facors combined in the same year seems to have had some very strange effects. I'm definitely seeing patterns I've never seen before and there are patterns I'm struggling to figure out.

I really hope your right on this one BSK. Once in a 100 year events are happening more frequently in our life times. Iceburgs melting,ozone disappearing,green house gases. Many things are happening these days. Every action has a equal and opposite reaction. I really don't think anyone can accurately predict whats going to happen in the next few years. Just My opinon. Not arugeing or starting crap.
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#494686 - 11/15/07 11:42 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: Lucky]
Lucky
Spike


Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Huntsville Albama

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Is anyone seeing activity in any mid Tn areas?
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#495645 - 11/15/07 10:18 PM Re: Question for experts [Re: Lucky]
In_my_sights
6 Point


Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Macon,Davidson, and anywhere e...

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I'm no expert at deer biology so I cant answer.


All I know is this year is different that most so far. Unless I see a big change this weekend I can say that it is late thus far.
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#495828 - 11/16/07 06:56 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: In_my_sights]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64846
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I tell you what, it just gets stranger and stranger. I looked around while checking cameras yesterday and just NOTHING in the way of rut sign. No pictures of deer running, no active scrape-working, no pictures of older bucks cruising. Just lots and lots of yearling bucks moving.

I even drove I-40 from Nashville to Jackson and back and not one dead deer on the freeway. I spike in car-deer collisions is a great anecdotal indicator of the rut, yet not a single dead deer.

I've never seen anything like this. Right now (Nov. 15) is generally the peak of breeding on my place.

Now research clearly indicates acorn failures heavily influences rubbing and scraping activity, and my research confirms this, with poor acorn crops decreasing rubbing activity by 50-70%. Research also indicates an acorn failure in an acorn-driven deer herd can delay breeding, but I've never witnessed that before. We've had many acorn failures over the years, but the rut was always the same, acorns or no acorns.

This is definitely a year like none I've seen before.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#495831 - 11/16/07 07:00 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64846
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
I really don't think anyone can accurately predict whats going to happen in the next few years. Just My opinon. Not arugeing or starting crap.


You won't get any argument from me concerning not being able to predict what will happen next year. With much of my college education based around the environmental sciences, I have to laugh every time I hear the "Chicken Little" computer climate model predictions for what will happen 30 years from now. I know for a fact that no computer model currently in existance has any ability to predict the climate even 30 days in advance, let alone 30 years.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#495905 - 11/16/07 07:46 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: BSK]
BuckWild
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 09/27/99
Posts: 5659
Loc: Memphis or Birdsong Creek

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Well its not just here. I spent 9 days in central Illinois from the 28th of October to the 13th of November and saw very little to no rut activity. It has everybody up there scratching their heads. First week of November and does still herded up and bucks walking around in bachelor groups. Saw a little dogging of does the end of October then went back the 7th of Nov. and all that activity had stopped. Just weird.
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#495967 - 11/16/07 08:41 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: BuckWild]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27472
Loc: TN

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I have several buddies hunting ILL. they killed a 141, 142, 145, 159, and 171, all between Nov 4 and Nov 8, before and after has been dead as for daylight mature buck movement.
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#496089 - 11/16/07 10:16 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: BSK]
skynimrod
10 Point


Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 2543
Loc: Bellevue Tn

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Just lots and lots of yearling bucks moving.

That's what I have seen also
And a few older ones just bedding by themselves in heavy cover not moving much. Might be this years situation with the water, food, and heat all combined. I have a feeling all will change after the rain we have been getting and last nights heavy frost. We will soon see!
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Use it willfully & be aware of it from others!

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#496146 - 11/16/07 10:51 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: BuckWild]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64846
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BuckWild
Saw a little dogging of does the end of October then went back the 7th of Nov. and all that activity had stopped. Just weird.


I saw the same thing here BuckWild. I have some night-time pictures of multiple bucks pestering some does in food plots around Halloween, but nothing since.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#498548 - 11/19/07 06:22 AM Re: Question for experts [Re: BSK]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I tell you what, it just gets stranger and stranger. I looked around while checking cameras yesterday and just NOTHING in the way of rut sign. No pictures of deer running, no active scrape-working, no pictures of older bucks cruising. Just lots and lots of yearling bucks moving.

I even drove I-40 from Nashville to Jackson and back and not one dead deer on the freeway. I spike in car-deer collisions is a great anecdotal indicator of the rut, yet not a single dead deer.

I've never seen anything like this. Right now (Nov. 15) is generally the peak of breeding on my place.

Now research clearly indicates acorn failures heavily influences rubbing and scraping activity, and my research confirms this, with poor acorn crops decreasing rubbing activity by 50-70%. Research also indicates an acorn failure in an acorn-driven deer herd can delay breeding, but I've never witnessed that before. We've had many acorn failures over the years, but the rut was always the same, acorns or no acorns.

This is definitely a year like none I've seen before.


I'm seeing the exact same thing where I'm hunting in Hickman county . The scrapes are just starting to appear , the mature bucks aren't active yet , and very few roadkills here in Maury and Hickman .
Seems almost like the October lull period before the rut kicks into gear . I have a feeling it won't kick into gear until after Thanksgiving .
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#509826 - 11/27/07 06:56 PM Re: Question for experts [Re: BuckWild]
hard county
6 Point


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 558
Loc: hornsby tennessee

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according to charles alsheimer it all has to do with the moon
the first or second full moon after the autumnal equinox or something
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#509903 - 11/27/07 07:36 PM Re: Question for experts [Re: hard county]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16862
Loc: Allardt, TN

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Charles Alsheimer is dead wrong lol
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#510001 - 11/27/07 08:16 PM Re: Question for experts [Re: smstone22]
Chris Tripp
10 Point


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 3762
Loc: Brush Creek, TN

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yep ole Charles is a little behind on his education... lol
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