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#490516 - 11/12/07 05:27 PM Moving Sanctuaries.
kholmes
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The other thread got me to thinking about making new sanctuaries on my farm. So here is the question. Do I wait till next year to do this or set aside a new sanctuary now and hunt the other?
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#490517 - 11/12/07 05:33 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: kholmes]
Greg .
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sanc·tu·ar·y /ˈsæŋktʃuˌɛri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sangk-choo-er-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ar·ies.
1. a sacred or holy place.
2. Judaism.
a. the Biblical tabernacle or the Temple in Jerusalem.
b. the holy of holies of these places of worship.
3. an especially holy place in a temple or church.
4. the part of a church around the altar; the chancel.
5. a church or other sacred place where fugitives were formerly entitled to immunity from arrest.
6. immunity afforded by refuge in such a place.
7. any place of refuge; asylum.
8. a tract of land where birds and wildlife, esp. those hunted for sport, can breed and take refuge in safety from hunters.
[Origin: 1300–50; ME < LL sānctuārium, equiv. to sānctu- (r. L sānct-), comb. form of sanctus (see Sanctus) + -ārium -ary]
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#490518 - 11/12/07 05:33 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: kholmes]
kholmes
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I have a couple of de-facto sanctuaries now that are neighbors property that they can't access without crossing the Forked Deer River so they aren't hunted. We have a combined 1000 acres of family land everyone is QDM minded and the little ones are passed up. It is divided up into sections and everyone hunts their own section with buffers in between. Are these buffer areas good enough? Thanks for any insight.
kh
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#491286 - 11/13/07 06:12 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: kholmes]
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Sanctuaries can be decided upon any way you like, but I work my sanctuaries by following the cover. The best cover is set aside as sanctuaries, and those areas change over time. We create our cover by cutting patches of timber (3-5 acres each), and as those cut patches regrow into impenetrable cover, they get designated as sanctuaries. Once they outgrow the cover stage, they are no longer sanctuaries, as new cuts will have been made to replace the ones growing beyond the cover stange and into the pole-timber stage. So a particular area remains a sanctuary for about 6-8 years, then is replaced with a new area of better cover.

Of course, we do this because the property is primarily mature hardwoods. If I had more old pastures and openings, I would keep those in perpetual states of usable cover.
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#491457 - 11/13/07 08:43 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: BSK]
kholmes
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Does the actual shape of the sanctuary matter? or is it more about total area.
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#491524 - 11/13/07 09:40 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: kholmes]
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It's more about the size of each sanctuary, although I certainly go to great lengths to produce particular types of habitat edges in particular locations. These specific habitat-terrain combinations produce very predictable buck movement patterns. But when it comes to the effectiveness of a sanctuary, the shape is much less important than the size.
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#491576 - 11/13/07 10:19 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: BSK]
kholmes
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Thank you BSK for the replies.
kh
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#491586 - 11/13/07 10:24 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: kholmes]
TAS
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kh,

How wide are your buffers/sanctuaries?
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#491622 - 11/13/07 10:58 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: TAS]
kholmes
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 Originally Posted By: TAS
kh,

How wide are your buffers/sanctuaries?


Not to wide. Any where from 100 yds down to maybe 50 but they are very long and linear. They are basically ditches that seperated the crop fields and grew up overtime into some big timber. It was select cut 10 years ago and is really thick almost unhuntable. The ditches feed into the Forked Deer River which serves a superhighway during deer season. I really think these ditches if they remain unhunted can help funnel deer off neighboring properties on to mine while also serving as a sanctuary. I may be shooting myself in the foot by giving up the better hunting areas but I might give it a try next season.
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#491710 - 11/13/07 12:11 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: kholmes]
TAS
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 Originally Posted By: kholmes
 Originally Posted By: TAS
kh,

How wide are your buffers/sanctuaries?


Not to wide. Any where from 100 yds down to maybe 50 but they are very long and linear. They are basically ditches that seperated the crop fields and grew up overtime into some big timber. It was select cut 10 years ago and is really thick almost unhuntable. The ditches feed into the Forked Deer River which serves a superhighway during deer season. I really think these ditches if they remain unhunted can help funnel deer off neighboring properties on to mine while also serving as a sanctuary. I may be shooting myself in the foot by giving up the better hunting areas but I might give it a try next season.
100 yards wide should be wide enough. I have one like that, 40 acres stretched out for about 3/4 mile.
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#492404 - 11/13/07 08:33 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: BSK]
Knox Hntr
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
If I had more old pastures and openings, I would keep those in perpetual states of usable cover.


That brings up a question I've been wondering about for a while. What's the best way to get convert long-time pasture land into viable deer cover? Will it eventually grow in thick if grazing animals are removed or are other steps necessary to expedite the process?

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#492450 - 11/13/07 08:48 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: Knox Hntr]
TAS
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 Originally Posted By: Knox Hntr
 Originally Posted By: BSK
If I had more old pastures and openings, I would keep those in perpetual states of usable cover.


That brings up a question I've been wondering about for a while. What's the best way to get convert long-time pasture land into viable deer cover? Will it eventually grow in thick if grazing animals are removed or are other steps necessary to expedite the process?


As a cattle farmer, I can assure you it will grow up so thick you can't walk through it if not bushogged or cattle kept on it. If your gonna do that put some plots on it also.
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#492548 - 11/13/07 09:18 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: kholmes]
DEER HUNTER 76
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#492799 - 11/14/07 06:19 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: Knox Hntr]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: Knox Hntr
 Originally Posted By: BSK
If I had more old pastures and openings, I would keep those in perpetual states of usable cover.


That brings up a question I've been wondering about for a while. What's the best way to get convert long-time pasture land into viable deer cover? Will it eventually grow in thick if grazing animals are removed or are other steps necessary to expedite the process?


Correct, it will grow up on its own. The fallow field can then be matained in cover by breaking it up into sections and bush-hogging each section on a 3-4 year rotation. For instance, Section A gets bush-hogged in 2008, Section B 2009, Section C 2010, then back to Section A in 2011, etc...
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#492859 - 11/14/07 07:03 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: BSK]
Knox Hntr
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Thanks TAS and BSK.

My parents have been looking at hunting land in SW Virginia and much of it has significant pasture on it. I was afraid of having too much 'dead space' and too little cover around. Sounds like that need not be a problem.

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#492863 - 11/14/07 07:07 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: Knox Hntr]
BSK
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For me, as a habitat manager, I look at pasture as wonderful "blank slate" habitat. I love pastures because I can do anything I want to them. I can plant them or maintain them into anything I want. I can be as creative as I want to be. I can turn them into any type of forest I want; I can turn them into food plots; I can turn them into cover; I can make one pasture all 3 habitat types in any shape I want.
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#492939 - 11/14/07 08:04 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: BSK]
dhines
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
For me, as a habitat manager, I look at pasture as wonderful "blank slate" habitat. I love pastures because I can do anything I want to them. I can plant them or maintain them into anything I want. I can be as creative as I want to be. I can turn them into any type of forest I want; I can turn them into food plots; I can turn them into cover; I can make one pasture all 3 habitat types in any shape I want.


That beings up a serious question for me. We have a considerable amount of river bottom land on our property that we currently lease out to local framers. They plant corn and soy in them on alternating years. Right now, the fields have corn/soy in them just during the growing season and are pretty much fallow the rest of the year. Would we be better off letting these fields grow over (and including foodplots on portions of them) or continuing to let them be used for agricultrual purposes? Which would have the biggest positive impact for the herd?

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#493047 - 11/14/07 09:37 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: dhines]
Stick'n'String
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Dennis,

Good to see you back on here. I'd think the ag crops really help your deer based on the parts of the property I've seen.

What percentages of your property would you say are in hardwood, pines (how old), foodplots/ag?

Daniel
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#493242 - 11/14/07 12:07 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: Stick'n'String]
BSK
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dhines,

That depends on what the rest of the property's habitat is.
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#493291 - 11/14/07 12:47 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: BSK]
dhines
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We have a total of about 1400 acres. About 50 acres are fields - maybe 35 of which are river bottom planted in corn/soy. The remaining fields are either food plots or left to natural browse. About 900 acres are rough, hilly 10 year-old clear-cuts and about 75 acres is a 4 year old clear cut. The remaining 300 or so acres are hardwoods.

Based on the replies, I'm guessing what you'd recommend is leaving the ag stuff and focus on continuing to open up hardwoods and the aging clearcuts?

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#493365 - 11/14/07 01:57 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: dhines]
TAS
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dhines,

JMO, but if all they are planting is 35 acres out of 1400 and they are leasing it from you to do it..good deal! Thats 35 acres that is getting planted and not costing you a penny. The soybean years will help the deer before it matures and the corn years will leave some after the combine is done. Thats a win-win in my book.

Personally I would work on some of the clearcuts, plant a variety of food plots and leave the hardwoods alone.
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#493377 - 11/14/07 02:07 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: TAS]
dhines
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 Originally Posted By: TAS
dhines,

JMO, but if all they are planting is 35 acres out of 1400 and they are leasing it from you to do it..good deal! Thats 35 acres that is getting planted and not costing you a penny. The soybean years will help the deer before it matures and the corn years will leave some after the combine is done. Thats a win-win in my book.

Personally I would work on some of the clearcuts, plant a variety of food plots and leave the hardwoods alone.


I'm sure that's closer to what we should be doing. It just sucks to see that rich river bottom sitting without any food source or cover for 3/4 of the year.

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#493419 - 11/14/07 02:34 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: dhines]
Stick'n'String
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 Quote:
About 900 acres are rough, hilly 10 year-old clear-cuts and about 75 acres is a 4 year old clear cut.


Are these the areas replanted in pines?
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#493489 - 11/14/07 03:47 PM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: Stick'n'String]
dhines
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 Originally Posted By: Stick'n'String
 Quote:
About 900 acres are rough, hilly 10 year-old clear-cuts and about 75 acres is a 4 year old clear cut.


Are these the areas replanted in pines?


Unfortunately, almost all of the clearcuts are planted in pines.

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#494344 - 11/15/07 06:37 AM Re: Moving Sanctuaries. [Re: dhines]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: dhines
We have a total of about 1400 acres. About 50 acres are fields - maybe 35 of which are river bottom planted in corn/soy. The remaining fields are either food plots or left to natural browse. About 900 acres are rough, hilly 10 year-old clear-cuts and about 75 acres is a 4 year old clear cut. The remaining 300 or so acres are hardwoods.

Based on the replies, I'm guessing what you'd recommend is leaving the ag stuff and focus on continuing to open up hardwoods and the aging clearcuts?


Yes, at this point, you don't need anymore cover. You already have too much.

Ask the farmer if it would be "out of bounds" to plant some long, narrow strip food plots along the edges of those ag- fields once they've been harvested. I would look at 20 to 30-yard wide strip plots running along the woods edge away from the river side and running the length of the fields. Even a simply cerela grain mixture (wheat and oats) would be sufficient.
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