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#494373 - 11/15/07 07:03 AM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: Boone 58]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Without question it pays dividends Camoman270, and I highly promote passing young bucks, especially on private land management programs.

But when we start talking about entire regions of the state, areas like Unit L are going to see improved buck age structures whether hunters kill young bucks or not. Hunters in Unit L are killing so few total bucks each year that the majority of living bucks pre-hunt survive the season, meaning most will survive to the following season and be a year older.

We probbly have somewhere near 220,000 adult bucks in the prehunt population in TN, yet hunters are only killing around 90,000 of those bucks. That leaves 130,000 that aren't killed by legal hunters. Now the big question is, how many of the 130,000 remaining bucks live until the next season? Nobody knows the answer to that question but I bet it is somewhere around 80-90%, meaning at least 100,000 survive.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#495266 - 11/15/07 06:45 PM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: pass-thru]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4258
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: pass-thru
deerchaser007.....your missing the whole point of the discussion. It's not whether or not to shoot young bucks. It's whether that negatively impacts the herd IF DOES ARE ALSO HARVESTED. In all of your scenarios, you only talk about the killing of young bucks.


Your right,.. i got off topic. SORRY!!!
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#495286 - 11/15/07 06:54 PM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: BSK]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4258
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
deerchaser007,

In your scenario you have 30 deer per square mile yet the hunters kill 13 bucks. In a "perfectly balanced" herd at 30 deer per square mile there would only be 10 bucks, 10 does, and 10 fawns per square mile.

In addition, I would never call 30 deer per square mile a "high density deer herd." 60 deer per square mile might be called a high density deer herd. Then consider that at least double that number of deer cross each square mile and you have 120 deer using that square mile of land. If the herd is in great shape (1.5 does per buck and 80% fawn recruitement) that gives you at least 32 bucks, 49 does and 39 fawns crossing the property. 13 bucks killed from 32 bucks is only 41% of the available bucks. If at least half the bucks are surviving from year to year, that's pretty good and buck age structures will advance.


YEP,.. 3 of the hunters harvested deer from another square mile. Or,.. maybe more of the hunters got bucks from another square mile. And at 10 per square mile ,.. thats 20 for 2 sq. mile. Look at the number of bucks eliminated in this scenerio. My scenerio would come from a high deer density in TN. 30 per square mile is slightly above average for a TN county. In your scenerio of 60 per square mile,. its not so bad,. but for a average TN county,. its terible.

I'm sorry i did get off topic though,.. but it was just a good spot to show how the overharvest of bucks can easily happen in a average TN county in a square mile. Making it impossible to implement any kind of QDM program around it.

SORRY GUYS......
_________________________
QDMA member...Cannon co.
Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
(Minquass)

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#495311 - 11/15/07 07:10 PM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: Greg .]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



Once you kill a buck he has no chance of getting any bigger. Leave them be if you want to manage for quality bucks IMO. I look at them like they have rabies or if I shoot one I am going to hell. Doesn't even tempt me or cross my mind. Does on the other hand are not so lucky on occasion.
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#495678 - 11/15/07 10:42 PM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: ]
TAS
6 Point


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Hickman County

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 Originally Posted By: lostsoul
or if I shoot one I am going to hell.


LOL
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#495788 - 11/16/07 06:01 AM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: TAS]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: TAS
 Originally Posted By: lostsoul
or if I shoot one I am going to hell.


LOL

Going anyway. \:D

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#495839 - 11/16/07 07:04 AM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: ]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: lostsoul
 Originally Posted By: TAS
 Originally Posted By: lostsoul
or if I shoot one I am going to hell.


LOL

Going anyway. \:D


I'll save you a place by the fire. ;\)
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#495841 - 11/16/07 07:08 AM Re: Does it really matter if you shoot year old bu [Re: BSK]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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deerchaser007,

Without question, shooting young bucks doesn't HELP. But the higher the deer density, the less it hurts. Again, in many parts of Unit L, buck age structures have dramatically improved as the herd density has increased, even though the buck harvest numbers have stayed the same from year to year. A smaller percentage of the buck population is killed each year, allowing more to advance in age.

Now for areas with high hunter densities, even with a "decent" deer density of 30 deer per square mile, the high hunter density can still produce a "Traditional Management" type harvest of 80% of the pre-hunt buck population. You aren't going to see any improvements in buck age structure under that scenario.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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