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#459133 - 10/20/07 09:21 PM Question For BSK or anyone else
Rut-N-Strut
8 Point


Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1051
Loc: Cumberland Co. Tn.

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I have noticed A decline In the "Better Bucks" I usually see running around my property.

This is what I am Used to seeing.



Now This is all we are seeing. Spikes and knarly looking deer 2.5 years of age.





Can You Tell Me What Is Going ON? Is it just not Time For The Big Boys To come Out Or Something?
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#459268 - 10/20/07 11:19 PM Re: Question For BSK or anyone else [Re: ]
4onaside
12 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 5129
Loc: Jackson,Tn

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The reason that you're not seeing as many bucks as you used to is that YOU'RE KILLING THEM ALL! lol
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#459306 - 10/21/07 05:29 AM Re: Question For BSK or anyone else [Re: 4onaside]
brier rabbit
4 Point


Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 130
Loc: sumner tn

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well if you want to kill bigge deer. you must stop shooting the little ones. even those spike could become big in a few years. i knew a man who had a pet wild deer, he would come around every winter to be feed. he was a very small spike his first 3 years, his last set of antlers at age 9 13 points lots of mass. he got hit by a car. the gy who had the deer was a advide deer hunter but him and this buck were great pals. the buck came to his house every winter to avoid deer hunter and to get food. he never locked him up but the deer would live in his barn. damdest thing i have ever seen.

p.s. kill more does

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#459336 - 10/21/07 08:14 AM Re: Question For BSK or anyone else [Re: brier rabbit]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65590
Loc: Nashville, TN

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There are so many factors that affect antler development, I really don't know where to start.

But I would highly recommend running trail-cameras. Trail-camera data is invaluable, because it can provide information about ALL the deer using your property, not just the ones that are observed/harvested. There can be a big difference.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#459354 - 10/21/07 08:42 AM Re: Question For BSK or anyone else [Re: BSK]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65590
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Rut-N-Strut,

I saw your post in the Serious Deer Hunting Forum where you stated you were managing your property for "trophy bucks." If you're truly managing for trophy bucks, you can't kill any bucks younger than fully mature. By shooting young bucks you are undermining your effort.

"Culling" of bucks should NOT be done in a "Quality" deer program. In a trophy program, culling is only used 1) once the buck age tructure has reached the intended goal; and 2) only used to remove bucks that have reached the age necessary to display much of their potential (4 1/2+) and appear not to be able to produce what the program is looking for. Cull bucks are removed not for genetic reasons but simply to remove a mouth from the environment--a mouth that will never be what the program is trying to produce.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#459449 - 10/21/07 10:53 AM Re: Question For BSK or anyone else [Re: BSK]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6617
Loc: Nashville

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If indeed you are trying to manage for trophy deer which are required to reach a minimum of 4-1/2 years of age (if not more), the main detriment to your program is the shooting of middle-aged deer (2-1/2 - 3-1/2). Depending upon the property, the shooting one 2-1/2 year old deer may be the equivalent of shooting 2-5 yearlings. The pre-mature shooting of one 3-1/2 year old deer will equate to an even higher number of yearlings being shot. It's the principle of attrition where in a balanced herd the youngest age classes comprise the largest percentage of animals. The number of animals in each cohort (age class) decreases as the animals age. For example in a free-ranging, heavily hunted herd (hypothetical): it may take 100 button bucks to produce 50 yearlings which will produce 25 2-1/2 year olds which will produce 10 3-1/2 year olds which will produce 4 4-1/2 year olds which will produce 1 5-1/2 year old.

Does that make things clear as mud or what?


Edited by BigGameGuy (10/21/07 10:58 AM)
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If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.

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#459501 - 10/21/07 11:30 AM Re: Question For BSK or anyone else [Re: BigGameGuy]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5112
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

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Now BGG,

Shooting "cull" bucks in Alabama is common practice. With a deer herd like Alabama's, how can you argu with them? LOL
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#459575 - 10/21/07 01:25 PM Re: Question For BSK or anyone else [Re: AlabamaSwamper]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4260
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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You can't shoot'em that young, Pic 3 and 4!! You need to pay close attention to the available habitat on your property. And especially look for dense safe cover for them big boys to feel safe in. Set aside some small areas in that dense cover for sancuaries.

In other words ,.. make them want to come to your property, and then stay on property as much as possible.

Kill does!!!
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Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
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