#463232 - 10/23/07 04:52 PM
Re: when bucks go missing..
[Re: BSK]
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TAS
6 Point
Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Hickman County
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"These animals are fascinating creatures to say the least."
Ain't that the truth. Do you think the whole shifting while in rut maybe mother natures way of preventing inbreeding? Many deer behaviors may have started as methods for reducing inbreeding, yet those behaviors now serve a completely different purpose. Whitetailed deer appear to have many if not most of their unique social behaviors wrapped into producing maximum localized genetic diversity. That may be a species survival mechanism. Every localized population has such diverse genetics, no matter what environmental infuence they are faced with, some individuals will likely have an "accidental" adaptation for surviving and prospering under those conditions.
BSK, after reading that four or five times, I think I agree with it! 
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To truly appreciate deer hunting you have to get off the computer and GO!
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#463270 - 10/23/07 05:09 PM
Re: when bucks go missing..
[Re: TAS]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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TAS,
You think that's bad, I've been having some multi-hour conversations of late with an extemely knowledgeable geneticist (Vanderbilt PhD, worked on the human genome projecy, now is a liason for a major drug company coordinating their genetically-based cancer drug research). She has been trying to explain to me the difference between "genetics" and "epigenetics." Genetics is simply the DNA code of an individual or species. However, epigenetics is what that actual DNA code does in each cell--how it works. The difference between the two is huge, and understanding how our DNA makes us what we individually are is actually all epigenetics, not necessarily the DNA code itself.
These discussions go so far over my head, I have to call back 2 or 3 days later and have a "review" of what we talked about the last time! But the information is fascinating beyond description. Kind of like having your own personal and interactive "Nova" episode.
But the scary part is, just about everything anyone who went through basic science was tought about DNA is wrong. What is taught in basic science is so overly simplistic that it really gives the wrong information about how genetics works.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#464046 - 10/23/07 10:21 PM
Re: when bucks go missing..
[Re: TAS]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
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Here's one TAS:
We all know how eye-color is a straight Mandelian dominant/recessive single gene process, with brown eyes being dominant and blue being recessive right?
In reality eye color is actually a highly complex combination of nine different genes, and any number of combinations for eye color are possible. That's why some have hazel eyes, some green, some bright blue, some steel grey, etc. Brown isn't necessarily "dominant" it is the combination of multiple colors. What do you get when you mix a whole bunch of different colors of paint together? Brown.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#464334 - 10/24/07 07:18 AM
Re: when bucks go missing..
[Re: TAS]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
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Good question TAS. I don't remember exactly, but I believe it is a high number (over 30).
Here's an even more bizarre but very critical one:
What a particular gene or series of genes "code for" is dependant on what molecular structures those genes are exposed to in the nucleus of the cell, and the molecular mix is very different in the nucleus depending on what that particular cell does. That means gene series "X" does one thing in a bone cell but codes for something completely different in a muscle cell. A particular series of genes code for red hair in a hair follicle cell but code for freckled skin in a skin cell. Someone that has that exact gene sequence will always have both red hair and freckled skin because they are the same gene sequence serving different functions depending on what cell they are in. That is the major and critical difference between genetics and epigenetics. Genetics is the actual gene coding. Epigenetics is what that coding does, and that can be all sorts of different functions.
This has MAJOR implications for everything in Nature, including "antler genetics" in deer. The series of genes that control antler shape/size may actually be the same genes that do some other important function in another part of the body.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#464626 - 10/24/07 10:24 AM
Re: when bucks go missing..
[Re: TAS]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Oh, I only wish it was my "smarts." I'm justing tapping into the knowledge-base of many vey smart and well-educated people.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#465144 - 10/24/07 03:54 PM
Re: when bucks go missing..
[Re: BSK]
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woodchuckc
8 Point
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1599
Loc: Hickman County, TN
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Bryan,
Whitetail deer have 35 pairs of chromosomes.
I can't help but interject a little comment, since this is what many of the people I work with do research on for a living in humans. A specific gene always codes for the same protein in every cell of an organism. There are three major ways that differences in that protein function can happen in different cells: control of production of the protein (that is, whether it is made in a particular cell or not), differential processing of the messenger RNA that is translated from the gene (so-called "splice variants"), or modification of the protein by the cell after it is made to alter its function in the cell (so-called post-translational modifications). Epigenetics is a complex term that encompasses some of the above things, plus many additional mechanisms of the cell's DNA essentially retaining some "memory" and connection between genes above and beyond their simple individual gene coding sequences. In fact, you will not find two scientists who will give you the exact same definition of epigenetics, it is so complex and consists of so many different mechanisms. In your example of red hair and freckles for example, there is definite linkage of the traits, but it is not an absolute since there are people with red hair that don't have freckles and people with freckles that don't have red hair.
It is a fascinating (and mind-boggling) field which we are really just beginning to scratch the surface of. Many, if not most, human diseases which have some inheritance characteristics involve epigenetics and multifactorial genetic issues - as we are finding out, often they make a person succeptible to developing a disease such as diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, autism, etc., but do not directly cause the disease.
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