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#438053 - 10/09/07 12:03 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: Buckblaster]
12 Point

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 6235
Loc: Adirondack Mtns, NY

First things to keep in mind as already mentioned fit and reaction factor. Meaning, if the recoil hurts or causes negitive reaction from the shooter, the interest level drops real quick like.

My first gun was a 12 ga. single barrel, light weight and kicked like a mule. (it felt like it back then) I didn't like it much, but if I was gonna hunt it was that or nothing.
May have done more shooting earlier on if the thought of getting kicked didn't enter the picture.

It has to enjoyable not a pain.

The choice of the .243 or 7mm-08, I personally would lean towards the 7mm-08.

ďTwo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.Ē
― Albert Einstein

#438141 - 10/09/07 12:52 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: FULLDRAWXX75]
.444 Marlin
16 Point

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 15387
Loc: Benton, Polk Co. Tenn.

.243 winchester in a H&R single shot like everyone else said.
Or if you can get your hands on it then get you a 6.8SPC or maybe a .30-30
The .30-30 has been a wicked starter gun for decades.
Spike bucks come with their own meat skewers.

Alright, I'm here now who wants my autograph??

#438185 - 10/09/07 01:21 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: .444 Marlin]
12 Point

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

Did I mention that you guys rock?
This gives me a ton to think about. Research time. He's going to be a happy camper. Thanks all, and I'll be checking in to see if the discussion continues.
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

#438759 - 10/09/07 06:55 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: Buckblaster]
18 Point

Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 21014
Loc: lenoir city,tn

most lost deer shot with a rifle were shot with a 243 or 30-30. the 243 is a capable gun in an EXPERIENCED shooters hands. the 30-30 makes a good emergency boat paddle. as already has been mentioned, the 7mm-08 is the perfect youth caliber.
experienced hunters know its not just a bushy white tail, its a big middle finger.

nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught

#438832 - 10/09/07 07:20 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: stik]
12 Point

Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6784
Loc: Knoxville, TN

I get a kick out of reading some of the posts about the 243. \:\) Some say it's a great caliber for deer and others say it doesn't have enough knock down power and others say you have to have a "perfect" shot to drop a deer or it will run off and die.

I saw a buck that ran over 300 yds that was shot 3 times with a 300 WSM, 2 "perfect" shots in the boiler room and the 3rd shot back in the liver as it was running.

Hunting happens and sometimes you have to track your game. Not every shot is going to drop a deer right in its tracks regardless of caliber.
Winchester Model 70 Stainless Left Hand .270 Win.
McMillan Edge
Talley Lightweights
Zeiss Victory Varipoint #60 Illuminated

#439019 - 10/09/07 08:15 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: Model70Man]
4 Point

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 131
Loc: AL

I debated this exact scenario all summer. I settled on trying some .308 Managed Recoil loads from Remington. In my Encore, felt recoil was very light so I let my son give it a try. To my surprise, he fell in love with MY rifle. I have since cut down the stock and installed a Sims pad. On our first real range session, he was stacking bullet holes on top of each other at 50 yards. Out of the first box of ammo, I only got in 4 shots. He wanted to keep shooting. I am elated that the managed recoil loads worked out the way they did. Now, he can graduate up to full house loads as he gets bigger. I'd definitely recommend these loads for small statured or recoil sensitive shooters. BTW, my son is six and weighs less than 60 pounds. Good luck. TRHC.
#439054 - 10/09/07 08:22 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: TRHC]
RUGER Administrator
Bambi Killa

Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 4105502
Loc: TN

I started my son out with a Remington Model 7 youth rifle chambered in the .260.
He is a rather large kid for his age, but yet his arms are short so the fit of that rifle was dang near perfect.
I agree fit of the rifle is critical.
With that being said, through a few years of experience with it the accuracy "grouping" of the rifle leaves a little to be desired and Dr. Dickel told me to go with the Ruger and I didn't listen. \:\)
Plus they think alot of them $$$ wise.

I have hunted with the 7mm08 and it will definately put 'em down.
Not sure how the recoil of the .308 would be out of a youth type gun, but I know out of an encore it kicks less than his .260.

Fit of the rifle to the child and a good amount of range time before hunting will result in lots of good results no matter the caliber.
Youth is wasted on the young.

#439092 - 10/09/07 08:30 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: TRHC]
12 Point

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 5002
Loc: In a river hopefully!

7mm-08, but then again I am partial. Shells are more expensive and if cost is a concern then go with a 308.

From a guy named Sundra in Buckmaster's website on 30-30 and 7mm-08.
"Should anyone think that qualifying my cartridge choice based on eastern hunting involves too much compromising, consider that even the least potent of this trio delivers more than 1,500 foot-pounds of energy at 300 yards. Is that adequate? Well, the .30-30 Win, a cartridge that has undoubtedly accounted for more white-tailed deer than any other in the 111 years itís been around, doesnít deliver that much punch at 100 yards (actually, itís at about 80 yards that the .30-30 drops below that). I donít know who or how they came up with a minimum of 1,000 foot-pounds as the yardstick for lethality on deer-size game, but would anyone argue that inside 80 yards, the .30-30 is not one lethal deer-harvesting machine?

Any doubts as to the capabilities of the 7mm-08 Rem should be dispelled when comparing it to the legendary 7x57 Mauser and the near mystical lethality attributed to it (Iíll spare you the ďKaramojoĒ Bell elephant stories). That formidable reputation was based on a conservative 175-grain round-nose factory load at around 2,450 fps. I say ďconservativeĒ because in deference to whatever Model 93 Mausers are still floating around, 7x57 factory ammo has always been loaded to pressure levels that are about 10 percent less than, say, the .308 Win or 7mm-08 Rem.

Once our ammo makers got around to loading lighter and more versatile spitzer bullets in the 7x57, typical 140-grain factory loads exited around 2,660 fps, but thatís still at the lower pressure limit. The 7mm-08, on the other hand, sends that same 140-grain bullet anywhere from 2,770 to 2,860 fps. Bottom line: Whatever the 7x57 can do ballistically, the 7mm-08 can match. Again, though, thatís comparing factory loads. The fact that the volume of the Mauser case is virtually identical to that of the .308 Win means that handloaders can equal 7mm-08 performance if using the same pressure levels, which is safe to do in any modern bolt-action rifle.

The most popular and best-suited deer load among the 7mm-08 factory offerings are the various 140-grain polycarbonate-tipped bullets, which is what Iíd normally use in a handload. Exiting at a realistic 2,800 fps (22-inch barrel) and zeroed dead-on at 200 yards, my point of impact at 250 yards is minus 3 inches. At 300 yards, POI is minus 7.3 inches, retained energy is a hefty 1,600 foot-pounds, and retained velocity is still an impressive 2,300 fps.

Thatís at 300 yards! Even cutting that back to 250, how many whitetails east of the Mississippi are taken at ranges in excess of that? And remember, weíre not including beanfield hunters who deliberately post themselves on stands where theyíre actually hoping for a 300- or 400-yard shot. I wish I had some statistical data to back me up, but Iíll bet that more than 95 percent of all eastern whitetails harvested are taken inside 250 yards. And at that distance, the 7mm-08 is more than enough gun. Itís also flat-shooting enough that hitting out to that range is no problem . . . on paper anyway. The real world is something else again. You need a real steady rest to make a 250-yard shot, and bench-steady shooting platforms are scarce in deer country!

Aside from its more than adequate ballistics, I like the 7mm-08 because the typical guns chambered for it are carbines. Since it has ballistics to spare, the loss of a few feet per second in exchange for a 20- or 22-inch barrel is no big thing. Iím not a fan of ultralight rifles, but for deer hunting I can appreciate a short, fast-handling rig that with scope, sling and a full magazine weighs around 81/2 pounds. As such, Iím looking at 14.7 foot-pounds of recoil. Putting that in a relative context, a same weight .30-06 backs up to the tune of nearly 20 foot-pounds, pushing a 165-grain bullet.

Now, Iím not particularly recoil-shy Ė in my line of work, I canít afford to be Ė but after a couple hundred-thousand rounds, you come to appreciate cartridges that are efficient, i.e., have all the performance needed to get the job done under any likely circumstance, without subjecting one to unnecessary recoil. In that respect, Iím like a silhouette shooter. I want a cartridge that will reliably knock down that most distant target with a minimum of recoil. Trust me on this: The less recoil, the better one can shoot . . . under any circumstance.
I hunt and fish not for the thrill of the kill, but for the thrill of the grill!!

#439186 - 10/09/07 08:51 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: big 8's in Weakley county]
10 Point

Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 3254
Loc: Michie, TN

 Originally Posted By: big 8's in Weakley county
.243 in a h and r

Ditto. I have the same rifle that I use to this day. Never had a deer go overe 20 yards with this rifle. With a 95 grain bullet he will be just fine. Always shoot for the lungs and put meat in the freezer. Marlin is now doing the trigger work from the factory and they are about 3 pounds and very crisp. For around $220 this a good rifle for the woods of TN.
For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:6

#439287 - 10/09/07 09:27 PM Re: Youngun First Rifle Help? [Re: Buckblaster]
8 Point

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1886
Loc: Tn,sevier Co.

marlin 30-30
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