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#443675 - 10/12/07 07:41 AM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: FULLDRAWXX75]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: FULLDRAWXX75
I can respect that BSK, I to have seen deer shot with many different weapon, not recovered. More with a bow than any other.


I couldn't agree more FDXX75, that's why I quit bow-hunting. I just have a hard time dealing with a lost deer.

That said, any weapon and any shot placement can result in a lost deer. Bullets and arrows do funny things when they hit flesh and bone. Sometimes a weapon and projectile combination that has always proved deadly produces some bizarre result and a deer is lost.


 Quote:
Like Hawkeye5 stated, shot placement is very important no matter what you are using.


I couldn't agree more. However, when I see a projectile that results in lost and nearly lost deer, repeatedly, I shy away from it. That's why I stopped using the 295 grn and lighter Powerbelt bullets. Five deer hit with them--some at point-blank range broadside--and five deer nearly lost because of no blood-trail. I've moved up to the 405 grn Powerbelts, and now I get full penetration every time and good blood-trails.

I'll be the first to admit I'm biased about MZ bullet sellection because I began using MZs when the only options available were round-balls or big lead conicals. I found I could rely on the conicals for full pass-throughs but not the round-balls. Now in today's world of inlines (which I use) and sabotted pistol bullets, I still find myself relying on the old idea of throwing the biggest, heaviest chunk of hardened lead I can find. I want bone-crushing penetration. I realize some of the new inlines can throw smaller pistol bullets almost fast enough to cause "knock-down" shocking power, similar to a modern rifle. But I still see an MZ as a weapon that kills by knocking the biggest hole possible all the way through a deer. So I use bullets I know will do that from any angle (including end-to-end) and come out the other side.

I want blood-loss, and I want it outside the body on both sides! ;\)


_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#443794 - 10/12/07 08:38 AM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: FULLDRAWXX75]
FULLDRAWXX75
12 Point


Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 6235
Loc: Adirondack Mtns, NY

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Hickory,

We did kinda stray away from your original guestion, r/b or conical?

I have taken deer with r/b, (.54 cal) if you choose to go with a modern sabot you will sacrific size and energy of the bullet. Starting with a .45 cal to begin with.

As BSK has stated, a full lead conical may be your better choice for that rifle.

FDXX75
_________________________
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein


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#443988 - 10/12/07 10:32 AM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: FULLDRAWXX75]
CHRIS WILSON
8 Point


Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 2108
Loc: Lebanon, TN

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With a .45 caliber, I'd shoot a decent weight conical. Round balls for a .45 are small, light weight rascals. Save the .45 round balls for small game or coyotes.
_________________________
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have."...Thomas Jefferson

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#445430 - 10/13/07 07:06 AM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: CHRIS WILSON]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Interesting stuff Renegade50. I too think shot placement is absolutely critical, but I've seen round-balls hang on the skin on the opposite side of a broadside chest hit, and little blood came from the entrance wound, producing an extremely hard-to-find deer in the dark.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#445535 - 10/13/07 09:21 AM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: BSK]
GRAMPS
14 Point


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 8600
Loc: Mount Carmel, TN

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I have killed deer with both the round ball and concial. Like BSK, I prefer a heavy conical. I like to blast a hole all the way thru.
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The older we get....the better we was.

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#446776 - 10/14/07 07:39 AM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: ]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: renegade50
then again we got to throw the equation of rate of twist into it also for different projectile useage, it is a trial with weapon charges and projectiles and hopefully not error thing out in the woods because of lack of homework so to speak not being done. which alot of inexperienced hunters with muzzleloaders have been known to do when they 1st start out.


Isn't that the truth! MZs are definitely trial and error guns.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#447926 - 10/14/07 07:48 PM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: ]
Greenhead
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 477
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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Hickory Nut. Try http://www.whiterifles.com. Doc White has produced some awesome guns. All his rifles are designed to shoot heavy slugs. You can order his bullets online. Roger Raglin shot his stuff for years.
As you know if its good enough for Roger, its good enough for anybody.
I have some heavy slugs I would give you, but they are .50 cal.
If anyone is interested they are the White super slugs. No idea what weight. PM me if you want them.
_________________________
Holey Moses look at the rack on that one!!!

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#448120 - 10/14/07 09:20 PM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: FULLDRAWXX75]
Hickory Nut
4 Point


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 129
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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Thanks for the good advice. Above all, I want to make a clean kill. I've still got a couple of weeks to try some new projectiles and see how I like them.
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#448339 - 10/14/07 10:44 PM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: Hickory Nut]
jakeway
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/22/99
Posts: 3588
Loc: Hendersonville, TN, USA

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Back to your original question, how deep are the groove sin your rifle? My really good shooting patched ball rifles have very deep grooves, so I can use thick pillow ticking patches. Some, if not most, conicals need slightly shallower or wider grooves to get a goodgas seal.

1 in 48" also is a bit fast for some round ball rifles, though it can be done. Mine are 1:60".

The TC Maxiball was designed for their Hawken rifles, qhich if I'm not mistaken, have 1:48" twist and relatively shallow grooves.
_________________________
It's not rocket surgery, for crying outside!

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#449091 - 10/15/07 12:19 PM Re: Round Ball or Conical? [Re: jakeway]
Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1904
Loc: Normandy Tn.

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As some may know, I am a proponent of the patched roundball for deer-sized and smaller ML game.
Why? I began hunting with MLs in the early '70s and every deer I've taken since then has been taken with the patched roundball. I've never lost a deer known to have been hit. I've never had one travel much over 100 yds. and the majority have gone down within sight. For me and the way I hunt I'd say that's about as lethal as it gets. That isn't to say that would be true for everyone. I have also not had any problem getting full penetration using moderate loads. However I do not expect good blood trails with roundballs. Due to a color vision problem, it is very dificult to identify even a great bloodtrail (except maybe on snow); so this is not a real issue for me. I much prefer just walking over to the dead deer in any case.

The big advantage the roundball has over other projectiles is lack of expense. Using full power roundball loads and loose powder can be almost as cheap as shooting .22 RF. This allows a person of modest means to do a great deal more shooting for practice, tayloring loads, and small game. A man that can confidently take small game and/or varments with his ML is likely to find deer a slam-dunk.

The first deer my Son took hunting entirely on his own was taken with a .45 roundball over 60grs. Pyrodex.

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