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#378110 - 09/03/07 09:06 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: pastorbmp]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: pastorbmp
156 P&y,

I think most AR's are "4 points on one side". I know Catoosa's are. Most private leases that I know that have AR's are 4 on one side. This beautiful buck would qualify for that! He is a dandy.


I've seen everything from a "no spikes" rule in the Deep South, 4 total points in MS, 3 points on a side, 6 total points or better, 4 points on a side, 8 total points or better, 9 total points or better (PI and Laurel Hill WMA), 12" or wider outside spread, 13" or wider outside spread, 15" or wider outside spread, etc., etc.

Many, many antler restrictions have been tried.
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#378158 - 09/03/07 10:01 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 03/26/99
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I couldn't agree more that any antler restriction is the first step in an attempt to advance buck age structure as long as it isn't set too low. If so then you're really not accomplishing anything. I'm not too crazy about the restrictions involving width or number of points. I prefer a minimum B & C score (as long as it isn't an unrealistic number for your area). Couple this with the "either/or option" of an age restriction (for instance or at least 4.5 years old) and you have the best criteria for advancing buck age structure as well as the opportunity at taking mature bucks that don't measure up rack wise.

A word of advice...before any restrictions are implemented you need to know what your objective is and to make sure that each and every person involved is in agreement.
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#378236 - 09/03/07 10:55 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: Mike Belt]
TOW
10 Point


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 4246
Loc: Back 40

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 Quote:
That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field.


As you said the easiest deer to judge age on are the yearling bucks versus the 2 1/2 and up. Just passing up yearling bucks is enough to make a dramatic change.

When a buck gets to be 2 1/2 he is at least 3 or 4 times "smarter" than he was when he was 1 1/2.

Just a good slide show showing the differences in ages between a yearling and an "adult" buck should be sufficient to teach any deer hunter what is and what isn't a yearling buck.

Guys... this is a no brainer.. just don't shoot yearling bucks... period.




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#378308 - 09/03/07 12:18 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: TOW]
ghosthunter
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Registered: 11/30/04
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I read an article in a magazine the other day that was discussing Pennsylvania's ARs and the article claimed that the trophy buck turn out in the state was significantly increasing.
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#378332 - 09/03/07 12:51 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: ghosthunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: ghosthunter
I read an article in a magazine the other day that was discussing Pennsylvania's ARs and the article claimed that the trophy buck turn out in the state was significantly increasing.


That is correct. The buck age structure is definitely increasing. And for a state agency, antler restrictions are about the only way to go. It would be impossible to "regulate" a 'no yearling bucks' policy. But on private property, hunters can set any criteria they want.
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#378405 - 09/03/07 01:40 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
156p&y
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Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4215
Loc: Franklin Tn

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
However, as I've said before, hunters have to start somewhere, and an antler restriction is probably one of he easiest systems to implement. That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field. The body differences between these two groups is the most striking of all age differences. So once an antler restriction begins to pay dividends--hunters seeing and harvesting some older bucks--then a "no yearling bucks" policy can be implemented.


That's what we did in the very beginning of our program. We started out with an 8pts and bigger rule that had to be outside the ears and soon learned that we were taking our top end yearlings in some cases. I really had to grow with the program b/c I was a relatively young hunter. So it was a great start, we only used this method I think 2 seasons before seeing positive results and moved on to a age class system. Ever since then we've stuck to aging but every once in a while we have guys come hunt that can't age deer so we tell them atleast an 8pt and bigger. Like you said BSK you have to start somewhere.
We started with a point restriction and moved to an age restriction and have even upped our age restriction and have talked about moving it from 3.5 to 4.5 but the problem is we can grow 4.5 year olds all day but have a hard time harvesting them or even seeing them.
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#378480 - 09/03/07 02:34 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: 156p&y]
BSK
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...but the problem is we can grow 4.5 year olds all day but have a hard time harvesting them or even seeing them.

Join the club 156p&y!
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#378655 - 09/03/07 04:44 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
cmoses
4 Point


Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 473
Loc: Cottontown

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
...but the problem is we can grow 4.5 year olds all day but have a hard time harvesting them or even seeing them.

Join the club 156p&y!


ditto that

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#379503 - 09/03/07 11:19 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: pastorbmp]
Boone 58
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Guys, bottom line is that you have to have a guideline....period if you want to accomplish more. For those of you who use the excuse that "it doesnt do any good cause no one follows the rules" is like saying that it does no good to have a speed limit cause every one speeds.........Please dont be so stupid to say that since rules will be broken but for the whole will produce results closer to the intended goal than if no goal were set at all. Rules do make a difference, people who are afraid to follow good rules will always whine that someone else is getting away with it.......Report them and shoot for better quality deer by following the guidelines we have. No one can argue that what has been implemented so far has not at least been a huge success in the state as far as improving the quality of older buck kills. WE need something to shoot for and i believe we are on the right track....we need some tweaking. I do not believe in the 9 pt rule set at laurel hill wma.....it is just too hard to see if a buck qualifies when there are monster 8 pts there on that wma!!!
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#379589 - 09/04/07 06:14 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: Boone 58]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 03/26/99
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I hunted PI. I didn't like the 9 point rule either. There are plenty of P & Y and bigger bucks dying of old age there. Throw in the "or" 4.5 years old or better and it makes the 9 point rule feasable.
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