Tndeer Logo

Page 9 of 11 « First<7891011>
Topic Options
#377961 - 09/03/07 05:46 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: 156p&y]
pastorbmp
10 Point


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 4784
Loc: Wartburg,TN

Offline
156 P&y,

I think most AR's are "4 points on one side". I know Catoosa's are. Most private leases that I know that have AR's are 4 on one side. This beautiful buck would qualify for that! He is a dandy.
_________________________
Fellowship Baptist Church Website

1Ti 1:15: ...Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Top
#378105 - 09/03/07 09:02 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: ghosthunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: ghosthunter
BSK,

They're eligible for harvest right now anyway. I don't see your point.


If a club or land-owner is using antler restrictions, it is usually in an attempt to get bucks into the older age-classes. The whole point of an antler restriction is to make young bucks off limits to harvest but allow older bucks to be harvested. If an antler restriction doesn't do that, it is a failure. If the antler restriction is set too low, a very high percentage of yearlings could be eligible for harvest, and it would be your largest, healthiest yearlings. Those are exactly the young bucks you don't want harvested because they will be your largest antlered 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks.

If an antler restriction is set too high, such as 4-points-on-a-side or 8-points-or-better, then some mature bucks will not qualify for harvest and you top-end yearlings are still eligible for harvest. In a healthy herd, some yearlings will produce 4-point-on-a-side antlers and even 8-point antlers.

Basically, there is no antler restriction that works real well. Too much overlap exists between young and older bucks with every potential antler criterion that could be used for a restriction.

However, as I've said before, hunters have to start somewhere, and an antler restriction is probably one of he easiest systems to implement. That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field. The body differences between these two groups is the most striking of all age differences. So once an antler restriction begins to pay dividends--hunters seeing and harvesting some older bucks--then a "no yearling bucks" policy can be implemented.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#378110 - 09/03/07 09:06 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: pastorbmp]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: pastorbmp
156 P&y,

I think most AR's are "4 points on one side". I know Catoosa's are. Most private leases that I know that have AR's are 4 on one side. This beautiful buck would qualify for that! He is a dandy.


I've seen everything from a "no spikes" rule in the Deep South, 4 total points in MS, 3 points on a side, 6 total points or better, 4 points on a side, 8 total points or better, 9 total points or better (PI and Laurel Hill WMA), 12" or wider outside spread, 13" or wider outside spread, 15" or wider outside spread, etc., etc.

Many, many antler restrictions have been tried.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#378158 - 09/03/07 10:01 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 17681
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

Offline
I couldn't agree more that any antler restriction is the first step in an attempt to advance buck age structure as long as it isn't set too low. If so then you're really not accomplishing anything. I'm not too crazy about the restrictions involving width or number of points. I prefer a minimum B & C score (as long as it isn't an unrealistic number for your area). Couple this with the "either/or option" of an age restriction (for instance or at least 4.5 years old) and you have the best criteria for advancing buck age structure as well as the opportunity at taking mature bucks that don't measure up rack wise.

A word of advice...before any restrictions are implemented you need to know what your objective is and to make sure that each and every person involved is in agreement.
_________________________
BONE HEAD HUNTER

Top
#378236 - 09/03/07 10:55 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: Mike Belt]
TOW
10 Point


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 4196
Loc: Back 40

Offline
 Quote:
That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field.


As you said the easiest deer to judge age on are the yearling bucks versus the 2 1/2 and up. Just passing up yearling bucks is enough to make a dramatic change.

When a buck gets to be 2 1/2 he is at least 3 or 4 times "smarter" than he was when he was 1 1/2.

Just a good slide show showing the differences in ages between a yearling and an "adult" buck should be sufficient to teach any deer hunter what is and what isn't a yearling buck.

Guys... this is a no brainer.. just don't shoot yearling bucks... period.




_________________________
HUNT-INDIANA

Top
#378308 - 09/03/07 12:18 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: TOW]
ghosthunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3556
Loc: chattanooga

Offline
I read an article in a magazine the other day that was discussing Pennsylvania's ARs and the article claimed that the trophy buck turn out in the state was significantly increasing.
_________________________
it's a long way to the top if ya wanna rock 'n' roll

Top
#378332 - 09/03/07 12:51 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: ghosthunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: ghosthunter
I read an article in a magazine the other day that was discussing Pennsylvania's ARs and the article claimed that the trophy buck turn out in the state was significantly increasing.


That is correct. The buck age structure is definitely increasing. And for a state agency, antler restrictions are about the only way to go. It would be impossible to "regulate" a 'no yearling bucks' policy. But on private property, hunters can set any criteria they want.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#378405 - 09/03/07 01:40 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
156p&y
10 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4194
Loc: Franklin Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
However, as I've said before, hunters have to start somewhere, and an antler restriction is probably one of he easiest systems to implement. That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field. The body differences between these two groups is the most striking of all age differences. So once an antler restriction begins to pay dividends--hunters seeing and harvesting some older bucks--then a "no yearling bucks" policy can be implemented.


That's what we did in the very beginning of our program. We started out with an 8pts and bigger rule that had to be outside the ears and soon learned that we were taking our top end yearlings in some cases. I really had to grow with the program b/c I was a relatively young hunter. So it was a great start, we only used this method I think 2 seasons before seeing positive results and moved on to a age class system. Ever since then we've stuck to aging but every once in a while we have guys come hunt that can't age deer so we tell them atleast an 8pt and bigger. Like you said BSK you have to start somewhere.
We started with a point restriction and moved to an age restriction and have even upped our age restriction and have talked about moving it from 3.5 to 4.5 but the problem is we can grow 4.5 year olds all day but have a hard time harvesting them or even seeing them.
_________________________


Top
#378480 - 09/03/07 02:34 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: 156p&y]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
...but the problem is we can grow 4.5 year olds all day but have a hard time harvesting them or even seeing them.

Join the club 156p&y!
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#378655 - 09/03/07 04:44 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
cmoses
4 Point


Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 473
Loc: Cottontown

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
...but the problem is we can grow 4.5 year olds all day but have a hard time harvesting them or even seeing them.

Join the club 156p&y!


ditto that

Top
Page 9 of 11 « First<7891011>


Moderator:  Bobby G, Unicam, CBU93, stretch, Kimber45, Kirk, Crappie Luck 
Hop to:
Top Posters
4104362
RUGER
85534
Deer Assassin
64229
BSK
59490
Crappie Luck
51368
spitndrum
Newest Members
PEhunter, Amy pesterfield, Blood seeker, fghijk604245, top_of_the_foodchain
13289 Registered Users
Who's Online
11 registered (Paul Burns, pledbetter, Bowdacious, Daniel n, BuckDropper, Setterman, 1 invisible) and 64 anonymous users online.
Forum Stats
13289 Members
42 Forums
85433 Topics
1032292 Posts

Max Online: 788 @ 11/11/13 08:06 PM
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
Forum Donations
The TnDeer.Com Deer Talk Forum is for Tennessee Deer Hunters by Tennessee Deer Hunters. If you enjoy using our Talk Forum and would like to contribute to help in it's up-keep. Just submit your contribution by clicking on the DONATE button below and paying with PayPal or a major credit card. Any amount is much appreciated. Thanks for your support!

TN Burn Safe

Generated in 0.214 seconds in which 0.002 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. Zlib compression enabled.