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#3736966 - 08/18/14 07:34 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: 348Winchester]
348Winchester
6 Point


Registered: 08/13/12
Posts: 926
Loc: Coon Creek

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OOps, did not finish. The Gestapo attitude is on the increase among urban police forces around the country in my opinion. Polite, respectful peace officers would earn people's respect. The robotic, despotic, authoritarian cop is an affront to honest citizens and the principals of liberty.
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#3736996 - 08/18/14 07:54 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: Still-n-Quiet]
sgtwebb1
14 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 9967
Loc: Ooltewah/Harrison TN, USA

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 Originally Posted By: Still-n-Quiet
My tune has not changed. Big city police forces are WAY too militarized.


Same here.
Too much military hardware, too many military tactics, too much of a military mindset by the CIVILIAN POLICE.

Besides that, whose "ox is being gored" here?
Mixed metaphors being used to pot stir.

The looters are wrong.
Police using panzers and full auto weapons is wrong.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
They sure can get our rights taken away, however.
_________________________
~~Death from above~~
)))---------------->>


Visit my Blog:
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#3737277 - 08/19/14 12:17 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: sgtwebb1]
DirtyBear0311
8 Point


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 1627
Loc: Milan, TN

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I wish someone would site a source where an actual tank or machine gun was used by police against civilians. I also wish someone would site a source for when police used an armoured vehicle to kill innocents.
_________________________
Semper Fi

Just because it's bad-a** don't mean it's a good idea.


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#3737307 - 08/19/14 12:47 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: DirtyBear0311]
sgtwebb1
14 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 9967
Loc: Ooltewah/Harrison TN, USA

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Look at your own signature line. (the second one, gyrene ;\) )
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~~Death from above~~
)))---------------->>


Visit my Blog:
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#3737489 - 08/19/14 03:38 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: Still-n-Quiet]
TAFKAP
14 Point


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 9543
Loc: Memphis

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 Originally Posted By: Still-n-Quiet
My tune has not changed. Big city police forces are WAY too militarized.


It's not just big city. This is Germantown, TN police "Bearcat" armored vehicle
_________________________
Everything important in life was learned from Mary Jo Kopechne.

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#3737503 - 08/19/14 03:48 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: Crappie Luck]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8596
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
It also depends on what actions they are taking while utilizing that military gear.

Are they violating 4th amendment rights of neighbors like in Boston or are they serving and protecting a community?

For me it also depends GREATLY on which police force we are talking about.

Personally, I do not think city and local police should have MRAP's and some other military gear.

* Let's pause here. I DO NOT CARE what firearms they carry as long as those weapons are also available to the civilian population - no more and certainly no less.

The Chief of Police is a politically appointed position and is more subject to abuse and ideological motivations than a Sheriff would be since they are elected by the people.
So IMO, Sheriff's departments should be equipped with heavier gear and local authorities should only have access to them on a limited and as-needed basis.

A local PD does does need heavy military gear for traffic duty and day to day operations.

That's just my opinion.


If 4th Amendment rights were violated in Boston, one would think that the ACLU and others would have filed lawsuits right and left. They may have, but until I've seen evidence of them, I don't buy it.

As for the appointed chiefs vs. elected sheriff argument, I can tell you that I participated in the prosecution of a lot more sheriffs than police chiefs during my years on the job. Sheriffs' departments vary greatly in size and jurisdiction throughout the country, but by and large, sheriffs have no claim to a higher level of integrity and professionalism than police chiefs. Whether by appointment or election, the voters get what they vote and pay for.

Metro Nashville-Davidson County has an elected sheriff and an appointed police chief. The sheriff runs the jail and has no role in day-today law enforcement, which is handled entirely by the Metro Police Department. It's been that way for 50 years and seems to work at least as well as other cities of comparable size with overlapping police and sheriff's departments.
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3737521 - 08/19/14 04:08 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: 348Winchester]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8596
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: 348Winchester
OOps, did not finish. The Gestapo attitude is on the increase among urban police forces around the country in my opinion. Polite, respectful peace officers would earn people's respect. The robotic, despotic, authoritarian cop is an affront to honest citizens and the principals of liberty.


You mean people like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJrG2AMghw
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3737530 - 08/19/14 04:17 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: TAFKAP]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8596
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
 Originally Posted By: Still-n-Quiet
My tune has not changed. Big city police forces are WAY too militarized.


It's not just big city. This is Germantown, TN police "Bearcat" armored vehicle


If I lived in Germantown, I wouldn't mind having that between me and some parts of Memphis.
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3737552 - 08/19/14 04:34 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: Bambi Buster]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 61032
Loc: Smith Co.

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 Quote:
As for the appointed chiefs vs. elected sheriff argument, I can tell you that I participated in the prosecution of a lot more sheriffs than police chiefs during my years on the job. Sheriffs' departments vary greatly in size and jurisdiction throughout the country, but by and large, sheriffs have no claim to a higher level of integrity and professionalism than police chiefs. Whether by appointment or election, the voters get what they vote and pay for.


My concern is less about corruption and more about accountability to the citizens.
It may be a feeble effort on my part, but if the concern is abuse of power and oppression of the people, the most obvious solution to me is an elected and accountable police force.

I'm not insulting metro, city or local LEO's. I'm speaking purely from a political and citizen selected position.

It's partially a matter of optics and partially a matter of citizens having the power to, in some small role, police the police.

HIstory has shown that a militarized police force that is unaccountable to the people is a disaster.

Also, I think the issue of a disrespectful society, "billy bad-a$$, type cops and a failing court/prison system are the root causes. The militarized police and the need for them are the visible symptoms are a much larger breakdown of of society and culture.

Addressing the issue of what the police wear and carry is really not going to solve a thing. We need to be asking "WHY" they need them. I don't mean that with a suspicious eye towards LE - I mean that is terms of what has changed in our relationship and interaction with them and them with society as a whole.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3737555 - 08/19/14 04:39 PM Re: Deafening silence [Re: Crappie Luck]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8596
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Quote:
As for the appointed chiefs vs. elected sheriff argument, I can tell you that I participated in the prosecution of a lot more sheriffs than police chiefs during my years on the job. Sheriffs' departments vary greatly in size and jurisdiction throughout the country, but by and large, sheriffs have no claim to a higher level of integrity and professionalism than police chiefs. Whether by appointment or election, the voters get what they vote and pay for.


My concern is less about corruption and more about accountability to the citizens.
It may be a feeble effort on my part, but if the concern is abuse of power and oppression of the people, the most obvious solution to me is an elected and accountable police force.

I'm not insulting metro, city or local LEO's. I'm speaking purely from a political and citizen selected position.

It's partially a matter of optics and partially a matter of citizens having the power to, in some small role, police the police.

HIstory has shown that a militarized police force that is unaccountable to the people is a disaster.

Also, I think the issue of a disrespectful society, "billy bad-a$$, type cops and a failing court/prison system are the root causes. The militarized police and the need for them are the visible symptoms are a much larger breakdown of of society and culture.

Addressing the issue of what the police wear and carry is really not going to solve a thing. We need to be asking "WHY" they need them. I don't mean that with a suspicious eye towards LE - I mean that is terms of what has changed in our relationship and interaction with them and them with society as a whole.



A very rational and well-reasoned reply with which I largely concur. Nicely done, sir.
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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