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#3718409 - 07/25/14 06:43 PM Different Feeling this Year
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 6963
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

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I have been a trophy hunter for sometime but never had an area where people let deer walk. I am on 2 leases and a couple years back one of my leases started to swing this way. When someone got out of lease we just payed more. Now we have it to 5 members and all only shoot big bucks or does with a bow and last year we killed some good deer. This year we have done several things to improve the place. I truly had forgotten how good it was to hunt somewhere that you really have a chance at a giant at any moment. Im really getting really fired up for the first time in several years.
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X Force is Bad!
Let em go and let em grow!
There is a difference in a turkey killer and a turkey hunter!

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#3718671 - 07/26/14 08:27 AM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: muddyboots]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64856
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Without question, knowing "good" bucks are in the woods adds dramatically to the excitement of the hunt.

In fact, that's one of the benefits of trail-cameras, for me. Knowing older bucks are using the property adds to the excitement, even on those days your really struggling to get yourself out there.
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#3718679 - 07/26/14 08:38 AM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: muddyboots]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19046
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
I truly had forgotten how good it was to hunt somewhere that you really have a chance at a giant at any moment. Im really getting really fired up for the first time in several years.

I truly understand that feeling.

What's amazing is that those hunters who don't want to pass up any bucks are typically the first ones to shoot or aggressively pursue ANY buck ANY larger than ANYTHING they've ever killed. While there are a few "meat" hunters (who will simply shoot the first deer that presents), when a buck and a doe are standing side-by-side, most meat hunters will shoot the buck, or if two bucks side-by-side, the larger buck. Why? Because everyone loves antlers.

Some people collect baseball cards. We collect antlers. \:\)

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#3718688 - 07/26/14 08:58 AM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: Wes Parrish]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19046
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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After having some more exciting places to hunt (which sounds like YOU created with the help of some like-minded folks), it can then become so unappealing to deer hunt in a place with less excitement that you might instead choose to just go fishing or hunt something other than deer. Which is a situation I don't necessarily see as a problem, and don't mean to come across as complaining (much), since I do enjoy lots of other things besides deer hunting.

I just enjoy deer hunting (more than most anything else) when I know there are decent opportunities for large antlered mature bucks.

And we do have the "formula" for creating more excitement, mainly just becomes an issue of getting enough fellow hunters to start passing up those younger bucks, especially those younger bucks with the above-average antlers for their young age (1 1/2 to 3 1/2).

Of course, there is both a "learning" curve and the progression of accomplishment on which we build. We would generally not expect nor want a young or novice hunter to qualify his personal "shooter" bucks by the same standards someone who has taken many might use.

Over in the Trail Cams & Pics Forum, Mr. CAW started an interesting thread entitled "One More Year? Or Take Him Now?"
http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthre...&gonew=1#UNREAD

Last time I checked it, this post kinda summed up my thoughts as well:
 Originally Posted By: CAW
Thanks for all the replies.

I think I will likely pass the deer but if either of my sons or my nephews has an opportunity, I will probably give them the green light.

I've had pretty good success having deer make it to the following year even if they are a lot tougher to kill. But that's fine, just knowing they are out there and have improved makes it worthwhile.

If someone kills him off of my property, good for them. That's part of the deal and I am ok with it.

I thought it was a very enlightening thread.

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#3718736 - 07/26/14 10:35 AM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: Wes Parrish]
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 6963
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

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Yes Wes it's not that exciting to hunt my other lease. The guys on that lease ask me why don't u deer hunt up here. I say you wouldn't understand it. Lol.
_________________________
X Force is Bad!
Let em go and let em grow!
There is a difference in a turkey killer and a turkey hunter!

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#3718764 - 07/26/14 11:56 AM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: muddyboots]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19046
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
The guys on that lease ask me why don't u deer hunt up here. I say you wouldn't understand it. Lol.

I say, "Let's try to help them." \:\)

Education as to the benefits is the key, while regulations can play a very important important role, right along with "role model" hunters who practice what they preach, their peers actually seeing the benefits of more biologically sound deer management and "trigger finger" restraint.

And not just "trigger finger" restraint on young bucks, but maybe more importantly, the best-antlered young bucks, which become the largest-antlered of older bucks. I've found that the more one "gives a pass" to an above average 2 1/2, the more one sees more above average 3 1/2 & older bucks, even though the ones seen are often different from the ones passed.

The vast majority of hunters find large-antlered older bucks very exciting, and most are more than willing to make carburetor adjustments when they believe they're worth making. Few will make such adjustments if they believe the guy down the ridge is just going to kill that "nice" buck they just passed up. But with more hunters getting on the same page, the quality of the hunting improves for everyone.

For those who have never passed up a buck, start small. Then have the mindset you'll enjoy passing up more and larger antlered ones over time. IMO, this "passing up" nice bucks is one of the big enjoyments of bow hunting to a large segment of bowhunters, simply because the range limitation of their bow forces that "passing" of a buck they would instantly kill with a gun in hand. Just change your mindset to it's more about the deer hunting than the weapon, and have the same "shooter" buck standards regardless. To me, there's no such thing as a "good bow buck", as it's either one I'd take or it's not.

The initial base standard defining a "shooter" buck for me is pretty simple:
It's more AGE based than antler based. For most areas I hunt, I simply do not want to take any bucks younger than 4 1/2, and prefer to take them older (5 1/2 or older). I honestly couldn't care less whether a buck has "9 or more points" and think all "point" antler restrictions are counter-productive to the perceived benefits. I like to see large racks, finding a massive mature 6-pointer the better "trophy" over a more average sized 9-point 3 1/2 or younger (which could grow into a massive mature 9-point-plus monster if allowed to walk when younger).

That doesn't mean I don't make mistakes and don't have exceptions, but generally speaking, this is what it is, and I'm usually specifically targeting a particular fully mature buck, which I don't get, but enjoy the challenge, commonly including my taking a different 4 1/2 or older buck in the process of pursuing a particular one.

My mindset has changed over time to where I can honestly say I enjoy the hunt, the challenge, more than the killing, although a periodic kill is part of fulfilling the challenge. It doesn't have to be every year, and I honestly am no longer bothered by a year in which I go "buckless", even if other people kill most of those bucks I chose to pass.

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#3718768 - 07/26/14 11:59 AM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: Wes Parrish]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19046
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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I'm also an avid "meat" hunter, just prefer to fill the freezer with doe meat, which falls right in place with biologically balanced deer harvests (killing about the same number of female as male deer, actually usually need to take more females).

Like most humans, I am a carnivore, and for me to eat meat, an animal has to die. The less I buy in a grocery store or restaurant, the better. I know where my meat comes from, and it's mostly free-range organic, with my having the satisfaction of choosing mostly nice fat doe venison replacing the store-bought beef most city-dwelling non-hunters are eating. And wild turkey has replaced much of the store-bought chicken I used to consume. As a hunter, the animals I eat enjoyed a normal life in the wild, unlike most raised in a cage, slaughtered, and placed in a grocery store or on a restaurant menu.

Since so many hunters are currently killing mainly bucks (most hunters are in fact "trophy" hunters, with a trophy buck being defined as any buck), I'm typically killing at least a couple female deer for each male deer, which (in terms of the deer herd management) helps off-set those hunters who aren't killing as many female deer. This "works for me" and I'm also feeling really good about the upcoming deer season. \:\)

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#3718829 - 07/26/14 03:03 PM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: Wes Parrish]
Tennessee Lead
8 Point


Registered: 08/08/13
Posts: 1342
Loc: Putnam County, TN

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Well said Wes
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#3718854 - 07/26/14 04:24 PM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: Tennessee Lead]
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 6963
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

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Wes i have tried with my other lease for years. Cant do it with the members we have. I actually showed one member a nice buck i did kill up there years a go and he said "Theres no way you killed that deer on this lease." LOL The bad part about it is that lease is 900 acres that borders about 10000 that doesnt allow any hunting. That place could be magical. My efforts have been turned to my other lease. I spent all day moving my food plot equipment today from the 900 acre lease to the other. The 900 acre lease will be for turkey hunting which it full of those. Ha Ha.
_________________________
X Force is Bad!
Let em go and let em grow!
There is a difference in a turkey killer and a turkey hunter!

Top
#3718857 - 07/26/14 04:31 PM Re: Different Feeling this Year [Re: Wes Parrish]
CAW
6 Point


Registered: 09/12/10
Posts: 819
Loc: Huntsville, AL

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
After having some more exciting places to hunt (which sounds like YOU created with the help of some like-minded folks), it can then become so unappealing to deer hunt in a place with less excitement that you might instead choose to just go fishing or hunt something other than deer. Which is a situation I don't necessarily see as a problem, and don't mean to come across as complaining (much), since I do enjoy lots of other things besides deer hunting.

I just enjoy deer hunting (more than most anything else) when I know there are decent opportunities for large antlered mature bucks.

And we do have the "formula" for creating more excitement, mainly just becomes an issue of getting enough fellow hunters to start passing up those younger bucks, especially those younger bucks with the above-average antlers for their young age (1 1/2 to 3 1/2).

Of course, there is both a "learning" curve and the progression of accomplishment on which we build. We would generally not expect nor want a young or novice hunter to qualify his personal "shooter" bucks by the same standards someone who has taken many might use.

Over in the Trail Cams & Pics Forum, Mr. CAW started an interesting thread entitled "One More Year? Or Take Him Now?"
http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthre...&gonew=1#UNREAD

Last time I checked it, this post kinda summed up my thoughts as well:
 Originally Posted By: CAW
Thanks for all the replies.

I think I will likely pass the deer but if either of my sons or my nephews has an opportunity, I will probably give them the green light.

I've had pretty good success having deer make it to the following year even if they are a lot tougher to kill. But that's fine, just knowing they are out there and have improved makes it worthwhile.

If someone kills him off of my property, good for them. That's part of the deal and I am ok with it.

I thought it was a very enlightening thread.


I'm glad I'm not the only one! \:\)

Great posts Wes. You and I think a lot alike.

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