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#3653661 - 04/23/14 08:37 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: jlmustain]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 913
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: jlmustain

In my experience, more often than not, there exists a relatively abundant neglect of family and responsibility in order to hunt like some people do.


I understand exactly what you are saying, but you would probably label me as such, though trophy hunting is not issue...I just love hunting and being outside. However, my priorities are in order and my family is fully aware of my addiction and most of them share it with me.

I do think some folks go over board with the trophy thing and their family and work suffer from it. I also think they miss the main point of hunting.

I dont have an issue with someone hunting a high fence either, but by no means is it fair chase. Thats like going to a sorority party to pick up ladies...actually thats more like baiting! ;\)
_________________________

In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks.
-John Muir




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#3653823 - 04/24/14 01:23 AM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: jlmustain]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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I am one of those people who your are taking about jlmustain. I hunt a ton and spend a ton of time in the woods year round. But I'm not married nor do I have kids. And girl friends don't have as much way in the matter compared to a wife. Not saying I don't give up some days for her. But not having a wife or kids and a job with a decently open schedule and vaction set around dates for hunting season I get to spend a great amount of time in a tree stand a a great amount of time at targeting nature deer. And its a full time job I.don't care what anyone says. I am beyond blessed to be able to do what I love pretty much year round. But I can promise you there is no neclect of responsibility or my family and friends. Worked very hard to be where I am so far and the cards have fell in place. Now when I get married or have kids sure it'll change a little but I still see my drive always there just maybe not as much time. Hunt a high fence if you want to I don't care. Pay out the butt for it I hope you kill a giant. I think you'd liable me as a over bored on it but its about all I do and fish golf a touch. But I can garuntee my priorities are in order. And my work nor family life suffers.


Edited by deerhunter10 (04/24/14 01:26 AM)
_________________________
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#3655435 - 04/25/14 06:02 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: Poser]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

Offline
Good for P&Y! Here's a link about high-fence, game farming issues from the perspective of our neighbors North of the border.
No Accident
_________________________
"What is man without the beasts? For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." (Chief Seattle)

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#3655859 - 04/26/14 01:47 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: Monty]
landman
8 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2487
Loc: TN & Western KY

content Online
Really who cares what they think?(P&Y)
I don't care about Net Scores...
Most of you on the Band Wagon may not know at one time your 80% let off bow
wasn't allowed
Is a 125" net TN buck really better than a 124" net TN buck?
Genetics don't come into play in most high fence tracts, manager better deer? Sure, Keep neighbors from shooting smaller bucks? Sure

Comments about well managed non fenced tracts that have TV hunts on them are "canned hunts"???? How are you managing genetics on that place???

I've been blessed to be on Great places in my career and even hunt some,
But sounds like I just been taking the easy way and really been a Canned Hunt Hunter..........



Edited by landman (04/26/14 01:52 PM)
_________________________
"BUY LAND. THEY AIN'T MAKING ANY MORE OF THE STUFF"
- Will Rogers

http://www.JimmySettleLand.com

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#3656445 - 04/27/14 01:58 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: landman]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 913
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: landman
Really who cares what they think?(P&Y)
I don't care about Net Scores...
Most of you on the Band Wagon may not know at one time your 80% let off bow
wasn't allowed
Is a 125" net TN buck really better than a 124" net TN buck?
Genetics don't come into play in most high fence tracts, manager better deer? Sure, Keep neighbors from shooting smaller bucks? Sure

Comments about well managed non fenced tracts that have TV hunts on them are "canned hunts"???? How are you managing genetics on that place???

I've been blessed to be on Great places in my career and even hunt some,
But sounds like I just been taking the easy way and really been a Canned Hunt Hunter..........



I wouldn't say canned hunt by any means. But a large trac of land with controlled pressure is by far an advantage of smaller heavily hunted places.

Another way to look at it is this; what about those limited quota tags out West? Are they canned? They are all public land, DIY hunts but some places only have 100 hunters hunting on a couple hundred thousand acres. Hunters apply for these mainly for a "trophy" animal that will make the books. I hope to draw some in the near future, but I am not going to say Im an excellent hunter if I kill a 180" mule deer or 90" antelope...I will admit that I had an excellent place to hunt and Im very fortunate.

I think a lot of people have a issue with someone claiming they are a "pro" hunter because they kill "big" deer and never give credit to the land they are hunting. I am lucky to be invited to hunt a 600 acre trac of land in the middle of Clarksville a couple times a year. I have never killed anything off it but I have had many opportunities to shoot good deer, deer bigger than anything I could kill on the other places I hunt. But this place has a realistic chance of killing a 140" and bigger deer, so Im hoping luck will prevail for me soon and when I do kill one I will admit that my skill level had very little to do with it.
_________________________

In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks.
-John Muir




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#3658523 - 04/29/14 03:21 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: landman]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65401
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: landman
Comments about well managed non fenced tracts that have TV hunts on them are "canned hunts"????


I'm never going to call a free-range situation a "canned hunt," but I sure have seen some non-fenced large leases where killing a mature buck is easier than on most high-fenced properties I've worked in. When you have hunter densities of 1 hunter per 1,000 acres, and no bucks are killed until full maturity, those bucks are the easiest mature bucks to kill I've ever encountered. Most show little fear of Man, even less than those I've encountered in high-fences (where hunting pressure is higher and management bucks begin to be killed at 3 1/2).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3658611 - 04/29/14 05:12 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: BSK]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41862
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: landman
Comments about well managed non fenced tracts that have TV hunts on them are "canned hunts"????


I'm never going to call a free-range situation a "canned hunt," but I sure have seen some non-fenced large leases where killing a mature buck is easier than on most high-fenced properties I've worked in. When you have hunter densities of 1 hunter per 1,000 acres, and no bucks are killed until full maturity, those bucks are the easiest mature bucks to kill I've ever encountered. Most show little fear of Man, even less than those I've encountered in high-fences (where hunting pressure is higher and management bucks begin to be killed at 3 1/2).


I love it when I hear the feeder go off and suddenly the sendero is full of deer and the hunter "rattles" one in.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#3666856 - 05/09/14 09:05 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: bowriter]
flounder
Spike


Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 21
Loc: Texas

Offline
spreading cwd around

Between 1996 and 2002, chronic wasting disease was diagnosed in 39 herds of farmed elk in Saskatchewan in a single epidemic. All of these herds were depopulated as part of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency’s (CFIA) disease eradication program. Animals, primarily over 12 mo of age, were tested for the presence CWD prions following euthanasia. Twenty-one of the herds were linked through movements of live animals with latent CWD from a single infected source herd in Saskatchewan, 17 through movements of animals from 7 of the secondarily infected herds.

***The source herd is believed to have become infected via importation of animals from a game farm in South Dakota where CWD was subsequently diagnosed (7,4). A wide range in herd prevalence of CWD at the time of herd depopulation of these herds was observed. Within-herd transmission was observed on some farms, while the disease remained confined to the introduced animals on other farms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2081988/

spreading cwd around...tss

Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) outbreaks and surveillance program in the Republic of Korea Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) outbreaks and surveillance program in the Republic of Korea

Hyun-Joo Sohn, Yoon-Hee Lee, Min-jeong Kim, Eun-Im Yun, Hyo-Jin Kim, Won-Yong Lee, Dong-Seob Tark, In- Soo Cho, Foreign Animal Disease Research Division, National Veterinary Research and Quarantine Service, Republic of Korea

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) has been recognized as an important prion disease in native North America deer and Rocky mountain elks. The disease is a unique member of the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs), which naturally affects only a few species. CWD had been limited to USA and Canada until 2000.

On 28 December 2000, information from the Canadian government showed that a total of 95 elk had been exported from farms with CWD to Korea.

These consisted of 23 elk in 1994 originating from the so-called “source farm” in Canada, and 72 elk in 1997, which had been held in pre export quarantine at the “source farm”.

Based on export information of CWD suspected elk from Canada to Korea, CWD surveillance program was initiated by the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry (MAF) in 2001.

All elks imported in 1997 were traced back, however elks imported in 1994 were impossible to identify.

CWD control measures included stamping out of all animals in the affected farm, and thorough cleaning and disinfection of the premises.

In addition, nationwide clinical surveillance of Korean native cervids, and improved measures to ensure reporting of CWD suspect cases were implemented.

*Total of 9 elks were found to be affected. CWD was designated as a notifiable disease under the Act for Prevention of Livestock Epidemics in 2002.

*Additional CWD cases - 12 elks and 2 elks - were diagnosed in 2004 and 2005.

*Since February of 2005, when slaughtered elks were found to be positive, all slaughtered cervid for human consumption at abattoirs were designated as target of the CWD surveillance program.

Currently, CWD laboratory testing is only conducted by National Reference Laboratory on CWD, which is the Foreign Animal Disease Division (FADD) of National Veterinary Research and Quarantine Service (NVRQS).

*In July 2010, one out of 3 elks from Farm 1 which were slaughtered for the human consumption was confirmed as positive.

*Consequently, all cervid – 54 elks, 41 Sika deer and 5 Albino deer – were culled and one elk was found to be positive.

Epidemiological investigations were conducted by Veterinary Epidemiology Division (VED) of NVRQS in collaboration with provincial veterinary services.

*Epidemiologically related farms were found as 3 farms and all cervid at these farms were culled and subjected to CWD diagnosis.

*Three elks and 5 crossbreeds (Red deer and Sika deer) were confirmed as positive at farm 2.

All cervids at Farm 3 and Farm 4 – 15 elks and 47 elks – were culled and confirmed as negative.

Further epidemiological investigations showed that these CWD outbreaks were linked to the importation of elks from Canada in 1994 based on circumstantial evidences.

*In December 2010, one elk was confirmed as positive at Farm 5.

*Consequently, all cervid – 3 elks, 11 Manchurian Sika deer and 20 Sika deer – were culled and one Manchurian Sika deer and seven Sika deer were found to be positive.

This is the first report of CWD in these sub-species of deer.

*Epidemiological investigations found that the owner of the Farm 2 in CWD outbreaks in July 2010 had co-owned the Farm 5.

*In addition, it was newly revealed that one positive elk was introduced from Farm 6 of Jinju-si Gyeongsang Namdo.

All cervid – 19 elks, 15 crossbreed (species unknown) and 64 Sika deer – of Farm 6 were culled, but all confirmed as negative.

: Corresponding author: Dr. Hyun-Joo Sohn (+82-31-467-1867, E-mail: shonhj@korea.kr) 2011 Pre-congress Workshop: TSEs in animals and their environment 5

http://www.prion2011.ca/files/2011TSEBookletV6Final.pdf

http://www.prion2011.ca/files/PRION_2011_-_Posters_(May_5-11).pdf

http://usdavskorea.blogspot.com/

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2012/06/natural-cases-of-cwd-in-eight-sika-deer.html

Friday, May 13, 2011

Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) outbreaks and surveillance program in the Republic of Korea

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2011/05/chronic-wasting-disease-cwd-outbreaks.html


Singeltary submission ;

Program Standards: Chronic Wasting Disease Herd Certification Program and Interstate Movement of Farmed or Captive Deer, Elk, and Moose

DOCUMENT ID: APHIS-2006-0118-0411

***Singeltary submission

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=APHIS-2006-0118-0411

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2014/03/docket-no-00-108-10-chronic-wasting.html

Friday, December 14, 2012

DEFRA U.K. What is the risk of Chronic Wasting Disease CWD being introduced into Great Britain? A Qualitative Risk Assessment October 2012

snip...

In the USA, under the Food and Drug Administration’s BSE Feed Regulation (21 CFR 589.2000) most material (exceptions include milk, tallow, and gelatin) from deer and elk is prohibited for use in feed for ruminant animals. With regards to feed for non-ruminant animals, under FDA law, CWD positive deer may not be used for any animal feed or feed ingredients. For elk and deer considered at high risk for CWD, the FDA recommends that these animals do not enter the animal feed system. However, this recommendation is guidance and not a requirement by law.

Animals considered at high risk for CWD include:

1) animals from areas declared to be endemic for CWD and/or to be CWD eradication zones and

2) deer and elk that at some time during the 60-month period prior to slaughter were in a captive herd that contained a CWD-positive animal.

Therefore, in the USA, materials from cervids other than CWD positive animals may be used in animal feed and feed ingredients for non-ruminants.

The amount of animal PAP that is of deer and/or elk origin imported from the USA to GB can not be determined, however, as it is not specified in TRACES. It may constitute a small percentage of the 8412 kilos of non-fish origin processed animal proteins that were imported from US into GB in 2011.

Overall, therefore, it is considered there is a __greater than negligible risk___ that (nonruminant) animal feed and pet food containing deer and/or elk protein is imported into GB.

There is uncertainty associated with this estimate given the lack of data on the amount of deer and/or elk protein possibly being imported in these products.

snip...

36% in 2007 (Almberg et al., 2011). In such areas, population declines of deer of up to 30 to 50% have been observed (Almberg et al., 2011). In areas of Colorado, the prevalence can be as high as 30% (EFSA, 2011).

The clinical signs of CWD in affected adults are weight loss and behavioural changes that can span weeks or months (Williams, 2005). In addition, signs might include excessive salivation, behavioural alterations including a fixed stare and changes in interaction with other animals in the herd, and an altered stance (Williams, 2005). These signs are indistinguishable from cervids experimentally infected with bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE).

Given this, if CWD was to be introduced into countries with BSE such as GB, for example, infected deer populations would need to be tested to differentiate if they were infected with CWD or BSE to minimise the risk of BSE entering the human food-chain via affected venison.

snip...

The rate of transmission of CWD has been reported to be as high as 30% and can approach 100% among captive animals in endemic areas (Safar et al., 2008).

snip...

In summary, in endemic areas, there is a medium probability that the soil and surrounding environment is contaminated with CWD prions and in a bioavailable form. In rural areas where CWD has not been reported and deer are present, there is a greater than negligible risk the soil is contaminated with CWD prion.

snip...

In summary, given the volume of tourists, hunters and servicemen moving between GB and North America, the probability of at least one person travelling to/from a CWD affected area and, in doing so, contaminating their clothing, footwear and/or equipment prior to arriving in GB is greater than negligible. For deer hunters, specifically, the risk is likely to be greater given the increased contact with deer and their environment. However, there is significant uncertainty associated with these estimates.

snip...

Therefore, it is considered that farmed and park deer may have a higher probability of exposure to CWD transferred to the environment than wild deer given the restricted habitat range and higher frequency of contact with tourists and returning GB residents.

snip...

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/files/qra_chronic-wasting-disease-121029.pdf



kind regards,
terry

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#3669395 - 05/13/14 02:33 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: landman]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27608
Loc: TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: landman
Really who cares what they think?(P&Y)
I don't care about Net Scores...
Most of you on the Band Wagon may not know at one time your 80% let off bow
wasn't allowed
Is a 125" net TN buck really better than a 124" net TN buck?
Genetics don't come into play in most high fence tracts, manager better deer? Sure, Keep neighbors from shooting smaller bucks? Sure

Comments about well managed non fenced tracts that have TV hunts on them are "canned hunts"???? How are you managing genetics on that place???

I've been blessed to be on Great places in my career and even hunt some,
But sounds like I just been taking the easy way and really been a Canned Hunt Hunter..........


There you have it and Im with you Landman!
Way too many worry way too much about things out of their control, or things that matter not in their real world!! Just hunt and be happy to do so in the best places your blessed to do so!!! I have no desire to hunt in a fence but for those who like that scenario, roll on!

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#3679555 - 05/29/14 12:20 AM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: bowriter]
TAFKAP
14 Point


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 9541
Loc: Memphis

Offline
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
I don't think I need an organization to tell me what is ethical and what isn't. The really big rub is when you start proclaiming records and getting your name in the book. Then you need a rule book.


_________________________
Everything important in life was learned from Mary Jo Kopechne.

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