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#377389 - 09/02/07 03:23 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: ghosthunter]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 17924
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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If I'm not mistaken Alan's reasoning for the spike rule was because the deer on PI had the genetics and the nutrition available to produce better than spike deer overall so he was culling them.
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#377394 - 09/02/07 03:32 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: Mike Belt]
pastorbmp
10 Point


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 4974
Loc: Wartburg,TN

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a "3 on one side rule" would mean you are taking your best yearling bucks. If one of your goals is more great racks (which in all honesty that is one of the goals), you are shooting yourself in the foot imo. I am certainly not opposed to shooting a mature buck with only three on a side, but to shoot the yearling 6 pointers would be self defeating. The best compromise might be to have a AR along with "or spread outside the ears". That wouldn't cover all the mature bucks, but it would certainly cover most of them.
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#377488 - 09/02/07 06:14 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: pastorbmp]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65479
Loc: Nashville, TN

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ghosthunter,

What pastorbmp said. The point (no pun intended) of antler restrictions is to eliminate young bucks from harvest but allow older bucks to be harvested. The problem with that system is there is no easy to identify antler characteristic that will perfectly divide yearlings from older bucks. Some older bucks have few points. Some older bucks have narrow spreads. And worse yet, the best, healthiest yearling bucks can qualify for just about any antler restriction, and the absolute last bucks you want harvested are your best yearlings, as they will also be your best middle-aged bucks.

In essence, no matter what antler restriction you set, your best yearlings will qualify and your lowest-end mature bucks won't. Both of those situations are counter-productive.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#377522 - 09/02/07 06:59 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
MoCamo
Spike


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Southern Tn

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we practice a three on one side rule on our lease and it has worked pretty well so far.We dont shoot every buck that meets the AR but we felt we needed a starting point.This is a old club and sometimes change is hard so we decided to take it one step at a time.We also added a solid food plot program plus alot of hard work and some broken tractor equiptment and good members and things seem to be coming together.Would like to post some pictures but cant seem to get it done.Any help or advice would be appreciated.
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#377658 - 09/02/07 09:07 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: MoCamo]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4087
Loc: Hardin, Co.

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MoCamo,
A lot of people use http://www.photobucket.com . Down load your pictures to photobucket. Then when you want to post them on tndeer, click on the third icon from the right, above there you type the messages in, if you put your mouse pointer on it, it will say "enter an image" left click on that icon. A script Prompt will pop up on your computer screen. Now go to photobucket to the picture you want to down load to tndeer. There will be four link options below the picture. click on the IMG Code and it will copy it. Now go back to tndeer to the script prompt and paste the IMG Code, and hit OK. It should put the picture in your post. Hope this helps.
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#377773 - 09/02/07 10:37 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65479
Loc: Nashville, TN

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MoCamo,

Any idea what percent of harvested bucks are yearlings with your 3-points-on-a-side rule?

I ask because 50% of the yearlings on my place have at least 3 points on one side. I would sure hate to have the yearlings--and the best half at that--eligible for harvest.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#377806 - 09/02/07 10:57 PM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: BSK]
ghosthunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3664
Loc: chattanooga

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BSK,

They're eligible for harvest right now anyway. I don't see your point.
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#377936 - 09/03/07 01:47 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: pastorbmp]
156p&y
10 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4224
Loc: Franklin Tn

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Here is another old deer that wouldn't qualify for 8pt of better rule. He's just a huge older than snot 7pt. I couldn't kill him last year but got close one time I actually had him in the scope and thought he was a different deer until it was too late and then cussed myself for about the next hour. [img][/img]
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#377961 - 09/03/07 05:46 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: 156p&y]
pastorbmp
10 Point


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 4974
Loc: Wartburg,TN

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156 P&y,

I think most AR's are "4 points on one side". I know Catoosa's are. Most private leases that I know that have AR's are 4 on one side. This beautiful buck would qualify for that! He is a dandy.
_________________________
Fellowship Baptist Church Website

1Ti 1:15: ...Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

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#378105 - 09/03/07 09:02 AM Re: Another example of why I don't like ARs [Re: ghosthunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65479
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: ghosthunter
BSK,

They're eligible for harvest right now anyway. I don't see your point.


If a club or land-owner is using antler restrictions, it is usually in an attempt to get bucks into the older age-classes. The whole point of an antler restriction is to make young bucks off limits to harvest but allow older bucks to be harvested. If an antler restriction doesn't do that, it is a failure. If the antler restriction is set too low, a very high percentage of yearlings could be eligible for harvest, and it would be your largest, healthiest yearlings. Those are exactly the young bucks you don't want harvested because they will be your largest antlered 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks.

If an antler restriction is set too high, such as 4-points-on-a-side or 8-points-or-better, then some mature bucks will not qualify for harvest and you top-end yearlings are still eligible for harvest. In a healthy herd, some yearlings will produce 4-point-on-a-side antlers and even 8-point antlers.

Basically, there is no antler restriction that works real well. Too much overlap exists between young and older bucks with every potential antler criterion that could be used for a restriction.

However, as I've said before, hunters have to start somewhere, and an antler restriction is probably one of he easiest systems to implement. That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field. The body differences between these two groups is the most striking of all age differences. So once an antler restriction begins to pay dividends--hunters seeing and harvesting some older bucks--then a "no yearling bucks" policy can be implemented.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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