Age restrictions work great for private hunting leases. In fact, age restrictions are the preferred management practice since you can teach your restrictions to lease members. Unfortunately, public land opportunities do not have the ability to control hunter skill levels so antler characteristic restrictions are the only method equitable to all.

Here's another example of why I don't like QDM programs set on point restrictions. Under a "4 points on one side" or 8-point rule, this buck would not be harvestable. Yet he should be a "shooter" in most QDM programs. He is at least 3 1/2 and might be 4 1/2.

Wes,
No offense, but you must not hunt the same WMA's that I do. Most fellows you are lucky if you can keep them from "shooting first and checking the # of points later". No telling how many bucks are left laying in the woods because some yahoo shot one then went down and checked it. The spirit of what you are saying is absolutely right, but the practicality of it on a WMA (imo) is impossible. The average weekend warrior hunter couldn't tell the difference between a 2 1/2 and a 3 1/2 year old deer. In fact, I'd say many have never even seen a 3 1/2 year deer.

Give you one example...ran into a guy at Catoosa last year. He said "they sure messed this place up when they started that 4 on one side rule. 20 years ago there used to be all kinds of deer up here, now there ain't no deer here".

Do you think you are going to be able to teach a guy like that how to distinguish between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old deer?

Probably not, but do you think you can teach that guy to count to four before he shoots a little buck either?

What does Jim Zumbo's favorite rifle have to do with this?

Oh, nevermind.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

I was thinking the same thing,

Pmc®

A large, and growing, number of hunters can accurately field judge the difference between 3 1/2 and older bucks vs. 2 1/2 and younger bucks.

Even when I show the hunter the tri-cuspid some still won't believe "that his 8-point is only a yearling".

I put out a camera on my other 700 acre lease with corn as the bait, left it there on a well used trail in a well defined funnel and after 1 week, I had ZERO pics!!!!!!! Camera is working fine also and corn wasn't touched. Now, figure that one out. lol

CullBuck,

Considering the camera data (if that is what you call it) I have for the last three years on our place, I will beg to differ.

3 years ago, we had around 6 bucks photographed that were 2.5+. This year, we are already at 12 for sure and maybe as many as 14.

And considering that our best antlered bucks haven't been taken any of the three years, I'd say any conversation of genetics is a waste of time. Three years ago, you couldn't buy a deer 2.5+. Last year, I personally saw three in what little hunting I did. I'd only seen one since 2001 on that place. Even though we have a few bigger 6pts, their presence alone will create competition which in theory, should help my chances of shooting one of those shooter bucks.

I do agree that AR's are not as good as "age" restrictions but we could go back to shooting 10 yearlings a year I guess.

HH,

By the way, your top photo versus your lower photos are the PERFECT example of why it is so hard to field-judge the age of bucks in the summertime. Look at the difference in that buck's neck-size from late August to mid-October. That's a massive difference.

That alone leads me to believe that a LOT of these summer-time age estimate are on the low side.

AR's are MUCH MUCH better than nothing, in my opinion. No, not the best way to manage a herd...but way better than the old days of "How many bucks did you kill this year", "AH, I only killed 7, 4 spikes, forkhorn and two good 6 pointers"....boy those were the days, weren't they!

How much benefit would we gain by "passing" on the 2 1/2's and only taking 3 1/2's and up, as opposed to taking 2 1/2's and up??

but while many hunters might think they would regret passing up shots at "nice" 2 1/2-yr-old bucks, once you do it --- well, at least I have had no regrets.

Very good point Wes. Honestly, I've never regretted passing up a buck of any age. If had wanted to shoot him, I would have. If I didn't shoot him at first sight, there was a reason.

Now there certainly have been bucks I regretted shooting, but never a regret for one I didn't shoot.

I don't understand the logic behind the antler restrictions at Laurel Hill WMA ? According the the exact wording in the regulations , A legal buck is one with " 2 points or less or at least 9 points . Antler points must be 1" or longer ".

same here.. stupid regs to say the least

Maybe BigGameGuy can explain that one .

Although I'm not sure how many 9pts+ they kill at Laurel Hill, I know there have been some huge bucks killed there, even before AR's were put in place. I know of one 159" deer taken there. That is big!

I wish the TWRA would just tell us why they put a 9pt or better rule. I'm just interested to know, not mad or anything.

BSK,

They're eligible for harvest right now anyway. I don't see your point.

156 P&y,

I think most AR's are "4 points on one side". I know Catoosa's are. Most private leases that I know that have AR's are 4 on one side. This beautiful buck would qualify for that! He is a dandy.

That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field.

I read an article in a magazine the other day that was discussing Pennsylvania's ARs and the article claimed that the trophy buck turn out in the state was significantly increasing.

However, as I've said before, hunters have to start somewhere, and an antler restriction is probably one of he easiest systems to implement. That said, I highly, HIGHLY recommend those hunters switch to an age-based system after a couple of years. Any hunter can learn to identify a yearling from an older buck fairly quickly, once they've had the opportunity to actually see some older bucks in the field. The body differences between these two groups is the most striking of all age differences. So once an antler restriction begins to pay dividends--hunters seeing and harvesting some older bucks--then a "no yearling bucks" policy can be implemented.

...but the problem is we can grow 4.5 year olds all day but have a hard time harvesting them or even seeing them.

Join the club 156p&y!

Throw in the "or" 4.5 years old or better and it makes the 9 point rule feasable.

ditto that

Here's another example of why I don't like QDM programs set on point restrictions. Under a "4 points on one side" or 8-point rule, this buck would not be harvestable. Yet he should be a "shooter" in most QDM programs. He is at least 3 1/2 and might be 4 1/2.

BSK never said that having mature 6-points running around is undesirable!

This thread is about the benefits of QDM over AR's. You might want to read the whole thread.

True QDM programs for buck harvesting is based on age and not point restrictions. The example he is talking about is the old 6 pointer in the picture you could not shoot with an 8 point rule antler restriction. That's what he doesn't like. Brian (like myself) I think would be proud to shoot a 4 1/2 year old 6 pointer but would be crushed if he screwed up and dropped the hammer on a 8 point yearling.

Older bucks are so hard to see and kill that I sure hate to have hunters NOT be able to kill a mature buck they get in their sights simply because his antlers don't "qualify" for harvest.

It just seem like there'd be very few lifetime 6-points, that it's not worth being concerned about.

If I'm not mistaken Alan's reasoning for the spike rule was because the deer on PI had the genetics and the nutrition available to produce better than spike deer overall so he was culling them.