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#3664808 - 05/07/14 12:55 PM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: infoman jr.]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27527
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: infoman jr.
 Originally Posted By: Hillbilly Hunter
They missed the mark. They should have made it smokeless.

Agree.

X2 Smokeless is the only way to fly if your looking for performance!

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#3679558 - 05/29/14 12:38 AM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: Doskil]
TAFKAP
14 Point


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 9523
Loc: Memphis

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 Originally Posted By: Doskil
seasons are needed?

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-...zzleloader.aspx

Its getting ridiculous now and not even the TWRA will be able to defend their muzzleloading seasons anymore.



I wish that TN would adopt a "primitive" season. I enjoy shooting a cap & ball blackpowder Hawken.
_________________________
Everything important in life was learned from Mary Jo Kopechne.

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#3679592 - 05/29/14 06:03 AM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: TAFKAP]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19199
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
I wish that TN would adopt a "primitive" season. I enjoy shooting a cap & ball blackpowder Hawken.

I may be wrong, but am pretty sure you can enjoy shooting your cap & ball blackpowder Hawken now, during any statewide deer season segment other than the archery-only.

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#3679919 - 05/29/14 02:58 PM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: Wes Parrish]
TAFKAP
14 Point


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 9523
Loc: Memphis

Offline
Well sure, but the point I was trying to make was that modern in-line muzzleloaders don't strike me as being in the spirit of intent for having a muzzleloader season. I know there's still the single-shot handicap, but with a ballistics profile more similar to a modern cartridge round, I think it'd be neat to split muzzleloader season out into a primitive-only weekend.

Just thinking aloud....I'm not complaining about it by any meansr
_________________________
Everything important in life was learned from Mary Jo Kopechne.

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#3679967 - 05/29/14 04:01 PM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: Doskil]
KPH
10 Point


Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3638
Loc: Hendersonville Tenn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Doskil
seasons are needed?

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-...zzleloader.aspx

Its getting ridiculous now and not even the TWRA will be able to defend their muzzleloading seasons anymore.


It has gotten to the point where both archery and muzzle loading seasons are nothing but for money making.
_________________________
when I die please don't let the wife sale my guns for what I told her I paid for them

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#3680207 - 05/29/14 09:23 PM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: megalomaniac]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19199
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: megalomaniac
States that actually need muzzleloader season to increase hunter opportunity while not significantly impacting the resource place significant restrictions precluding the use of the newfangled muzzleloaders (ie, Colorado- no sabots or pyrodex pellets can be used; no smokeless powder; no scopes).

Tennessee's deer herd no longer needs protection from overharvest during muzzleloader season, so the gloves are off.

In times past, the real "significant restrictions" of muzzleloader hunting in TN (having little impact to the deer herd) was mainly the fact that few people had them, and when they got them, most were quite unreliable (at least compared to today's modern inlines). But in 2014, we can expect more bucks to be killed for the year during the early muzzleloader season than in the traditional "deer" season (using centerfire rifles).

It kinda seems a bit "unfair" to those just wanting to "try" deer hunting, and those maybe not wanting/able to buy a "special" weapon, as they are less able to participate in the first opportunities before so many of the bucks have already been killed. This can even be a significant financial issue for those with children they're wanting to participate in these better deer hunting opportunities (such as the early muzzleloader segment).

And if you're a more average deer hunter, maybe only deer hunting a couple weekends a year, do you want to hunt with the most effective weapon (likely the only one you own) or the least effective weapon (you would be required to additionally purchase)? Should you be disallowed from hunting the best hunting days (by the calender and by the rut timing) simply because you are NOT a more avid hunter who owns a larger quantity of specialized weaponry?

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#3680208 - 05/29/14 09:23 PM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: Wes Parrish]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19199
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
More and more, I see much merit in simply having a "deer" season, and letting the hunters hunt with whatever weapons most enthuse them. Why should "special" weapons (where the only thing really special is one's ability to purchase them) be reason to grant special privilege via getting to hunt not just ahead of those who simply own a "deer" rifle, but in many cases the special privilege allows for the hunting of the very best rut days (when bucks move most) of the entire year?

Think about it.
A huge percentage of today's archery hunters are very avid and accomplished deer hunters who are more "effective" with their modern archery equipment than less experienced hunters are with centerfire rifles. A huge percentage of today's muzzleloader hunters are very avid and accomplished deer hunters who are more "effective" with their modern muzzleloaders than less experienced hunters are with centerfire rifles.

It wasn't this way when archery & muzzleloader season segments originally began. We were shooting zero percent let-off recurve bows without sights, no mechanical releases, and cedar arrows. My personal first archery deer was with just such. Our muzzleloaders were mostly sidelocks without optical sights, and were often less reliable and less effective than our recurve bows. I didn't participate in the first few years of TN's muzzleloader season, not because I didn't want to, but simply because I truly couldn't afford the extra cost at the time.

Personally, I enjoy hunting with whatever weapon is in my hand. But I have to ponder whether I really deserve special privilege just because I'm an avid hunter able to own modern bows and special muzzleloaders that are far more accurate and deadly than any .30/.30 ever was. While I may spend more days afield with a bow or a muzzleloader in my hand (than a centerfire rifle), I consider myself a "deer" hunter more than a "bow" or "muzzleloader" hunter, and think many avid hunters are like me, in being more enthused about the actual hunting than the weapon in hand.

Some are more enthused about their weapons, so just hunt with what enthuses you most. The question today now becomes, "Does one deserve special privilege just because of how he loads his gun? Or weather the projectile is a deadly bullet or a deadly arrow?

We are all "deer" hunters.

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#3680227 - 05/29/14 09:43 PM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: Wes Parrish]
landman
8 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2448
Loc: TN & Western KY

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
More and more, I see much merit in simply having a "deer" season, and letting the hunters hunt with whatever weapons most enthuse them. Why should "special" weapons (where the only thing really special is one's ability to purchase them) be reason to grant special privilege via getting to hunt not just ahead of those who simply own a "deer" rifle, but in many cases the special privilege allows for the hunting of the very best rut days (when bucks move most) of the entire year?

Think about it.
A huge percentage of today's archery hunters are very avid and accomplished deer hunters who are more "effective" with their modern archery equipment than less experienced hunters are with centerfire rifles. A huge percentage of today's muzzleloader hunters are very avid and accomplished deer hunters who are more "effective" with their modern muzzleloaders than less experienced hunters are with centerfire rifles.

It wasn't this way when archery & muzzleloader season segments originally began. We were shooting zero percent let-off recurve bows without sights, no mechanical releases, and cedar arrows. My personal first archery deer was with just such. Our muzzleloaders were mostly sidelocks without optical sights, and were often less reliable and less effective than our recurve bows. I didn't participate in the first few years of TN's muzzleloader season, not because I didn't want to, but simply because I truly couldn't afford the extra cost at the time.

Personally, I enjoy hunting with whatever weapon is in my hand. But I have to ponder whether I really deserve special privilege just because I'm an avid hunter able to own modern bows and special muzzleloaders that are far more accurate and deadly than any .30/.30 ever was. While I may spend more days afield with a bow or a muzzleloader in my hand (than a centerfire rifle), I consider myself a "deer" hunter more than a "bow" or "muzzleloader" hunter, and think many avid hunters are like me, in being more enthused about the actual hunting than the weapon in hand.

Some are more enthused about their weapons, so just hunt with what enthuses you most. The question today now becomes, "Does one deserve special privilege just because of how he loads his gun? Or weather the projectile is a deadly bullet or a deadly arrow?

We are all "deer" hunters.


Its the money...
Lobbyist pushed the crossbow in..
MZ same way, I'm sure they will say it was the hunters, but we know it wasn't

You have a VERY GOOD point about the MZ season, those 2 weeks will hammer more deer, and it is an added cost to be able to hunt with one. And I know several that have to wait until rifle opens to hunt, I see many youth deer rifles sold, but not so many buying a mz for their kids
_________________________
"BUY LAND. THEY AIN'T MAKING ANY MORE OF THE STUFF"
- Will Rogers

http://www.JimmySettleLand.com

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#3680296 - 05/30/14 12:07 AM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: Wes Parrish]
TAFKAP
14 Point


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 9523
Loc: Memphis

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: megalomaniac
States that actually need muzzleloader season to increase hunter opportunity while not significantly impacting the resource place significant restrictions precluding the use of the newfangled muzzleloaders (ie, Colorado- no sabots or pyrodex pellets can be used; no smokeless powder; no scopes).

Tennessee's deer herd no longer needs protection from overharvest during muzzleloader season, so the gloves are off.

In times past, the real "significant restrictions" of muzzleloader hunting in TN (having little impact to the deer herd) was mainly the fact that few people had them, and when they got them, most were quite unreliable (at least compared to today's modern inlines). But in 2014, we can expect more bucks to be killed for the year during the early muzzleloader season than in the traditional "deer" season (using centerfire rifles).

It kinda seems a bit "unfair" to those just wanting to "try" deer hunting, and those maybe not wanting/able to buy a "special" weapon, as they are less able to participate in the first opportunities before so many of the bucks have already been killed. This can even be a significant financial issue for those with children they're wanting to participate in these better deer hunting opportunities (such as the early muzzleloader segment).

And if you're a more average deer hunter, maybe only deer hunting a couple weekends a year, do you want to hunt with the most effective weapon (likely the only one you own) or the least effective weapon (you would be required to additionally purchase)? Should you be disallowed from hunting the best hunting days (by the calender and by the rut timing) simply because you are NOT a more avid hunter who owns a larger quantity of specialized weaponry?


So by that virtue, should we eliminate archery season? I can buy a cheapo Hawken for a quarter of the cost of a name-brand compound bow……should we open rifle season in September to let everyone have a chance?

I like the 3-season system in place now because there is the intent to graduate the difficulty and methods. But it seems disingenuous to call the 4-weeks between archery and rifle "muzzleloader" as if it is a handicapped system. (3) Pyrodex pellets and a high-performance sabot round are very likely to outperform my Marlin .30-30. If they intend to really handicap the hunters, I think it'd be appropriate to have a "primitive" season for cap & ball rifles, flintlocks, and blackpowder revolvers (maybe for 2 weeks after archery) followed by a "muzzleloader" season, where a single-shot rifle might also be allowed.

Again, just a thought.
_________________________
Everything important in life was learned from Mary Jo Kopechne.

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#3680421 - 05/30/14 07:41 AM Re: Tell me again why special muzzleloading rifle [Re: landman]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9842
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

Offline
 Originally Posted By: landman
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
More and more, I see much merit in simply having a "deer" season, and letting the hunters hunt with whatever weapons most enthuse them. Why should "special" weapons (where the only thing really special is one's ability to purchase them) be reason to grant special privilege via getting to hunt not just ahead of those who simply own a "deer" rifle, but in many cases the special privilege allows for the hunting of the very best rut days (when bucks move most) of the entire year?

Think about it.
A huge percentage of today's archery hunters are very avid and accomplished deer hunters who are more "effective" with their modern archery equipment than less experienced hunters are with centerfire rifles. A huge percentage of today's muzzleloader hunters are very avid and accomplished deer hunters who are more "effective" with their modern muzzleloaders than less experienced hunters are with centerfire rifles.

It wasn't this way when archery & muzzleloader season segments originally began. We were shooting zero percent let-off recurve bows without sights, no mechanical releases, and cedar arrows. My personal first archery deer was with just such. Our muzzleloaders were mostly sidelocks without optical sights, and were often less reliable and less effective than our recurve bows. I didn't participate in the first few years of TN's muzzleloader season, not because I didn't want to, but simply because I truly couldn't afford the extra cost at the time.

Personally, I enjoy hunting with whatever weapon is in my hand. But I have to ponder whether I really deserve special privilege just because I'm an avid hunter able to own modern bows and special muzzleloaders that are far more accurate and deadly than any .30/.30 ever was. While I may spend more days afield with a bow or a muzzleloader in my hand (than a centerfire rifle), I consider myself a "deer" hunter more than a "bow" or "muzzleloader" hunter, and think many avid hunters are like me, in being more enthused about the actual hunting than the weapon in hand.

Some are more enthused about their weapons, so just hunt with what enthuses you most. The question today now becomes, "Does one deserve special privilege just because of how he loads his gun? Or weather the projectile is a deadly bullet or a deadly arrow?

We are all "deer" hunters.


Its the money...
Lobbyist pushed the crossbow in..
MZ same way, I'm sure they will say it was the hunters, but we know it wasn't

You have a VERY GOOD point about the MZ season, those 2 weeks will hammer more deer, and it is an added cost to be able to hunt with one. And I know several that have to wait until rifle opens to hunt, I see many youth deer rifles sold, but not so many buying a mz for their kids


I was pretty much the administrator when the first crossbow for disabled hunters started. Trying to fairly deal with the level of disabilities led to a series of relaxing the levels by the Commission. After several years of increasing numbers, it was finally judged to not be a biological issue and was legalized for all hunters.

Lobbyists had ZERO to do with getting it legalized in TN.


Edited by scn (05/30/14 07:41 AM)
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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