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#3654580 - 04/24/14 08:20 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: stik]
landman
10 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2746
Loc: TN & Western KY

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 Originally Posted By: stik
 Originally Posted By: TX300mag
It's sad, but I've seen people in Texas ostracized, made fun of, and looked down on for their FIRST deer being a 2.5 and even 3.5 year old buck.

I remember one instance in particular where a young hunter (13-14 years old) walked away during the early season and never came back. He watched his father being ridiculed and chastised for killing his first deer, which was an 8 point buck that didn't meet other hunters standard (no rule violated). Way to introduce two new hunters to the sport.

That's the truth
that happens here(tndeer) too. there are those amongst us who belittle others' deer if they don't meet their standards.
_________________________
"BUY LAND. THEY AIN'T MAKING ANY MORE OF THE STUFF"
- Will Rogers

http://www.JimmySettleLand.com

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#3654657 - 04/24/14 09:14 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: landman]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19470
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: landman
TWRA showed a graph today that showed TN 3.5 yr old buck harvest has dropped the last 2-3 yrs we are now back to the same amount killed in 2008

Wonder if it had anything to do with the November muzzleloader buck limit going from 1 to 3 bucks, was that about 4 years ago?

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#3654687 - 04/24/14 09:43 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: Wes Parrish]
landman
10 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2746
Loc: TN & Western KY

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: landman
TWRA showed a graph today that showed TN 3.5 yr old buck harvest has dropped the last 2-3 yrs we are now back to the same amount killed in 2008

Wonder if it had anything to do with the November muzzleloader buck limit going from 1 to 3 bucks, was that about 4 years ago?


Good point Wes.

But that couldn't be a factor....less than 2,500 killed 3 bucks this year
But at the same time 120,000 didn't kill a buck...those numbers are per TWRA
as of today
_________________________
"BUY LAND. THEY AIN'T MAKING ANY MORE OF THE STUFF"
- Will Rogers

http://www.JimmySettleLand.com

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#3654707 - 04/24/14 10:02 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: landman]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 976
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: landman
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: landman
TWRA showed a graph today that showed TN 3.5 yr old buck harvest has dropped the last 2-3 yrs we are now back to the same amount killed in 2008

Wonder if it had anything to do with the November muzzleloader buck limit going from 1 to 3 bucks, was that about 4 years ago?


Good point Wes.

But that couldn't be a factor....less than 2,500 killed 3 bucks this year
But at the same time 120,000 didn't kill a buck...those numbers are per TWRA
as of today


Im not one to argue with TWRA records, but 120,000 didnt kill one? I would like to see a breakdown of demographics on these people. Are they bird hunters and fisherman who buy a sportsmans tag, lifetime tag holders who dont deer hunt, relatives in town for a holiday, what? Im sure a laarge portion of them chose not to kill one as well. Then you got the folks who dont check them in, some say that number is not as high but I think it is higher than we think. For example; people using the landowner exemption, getting other people to check their kills in, killing more than the limit and not checking it in. We all know it happens, but to what extent is unknown. To be naive and say it is statistically irrelevant is the lazy way out.
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In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks.
-John Muir




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#3654780 - 04/25/14 02:46 AM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: TNGunsmoke]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 12256
Loc: east tn

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 Originally Posted By: TNGunsmoke
 Originally Posted By: mike243
Throw EHD into the mix & you might find part of the reasons for some states wanting a lower deer density # ,they were trying to kill every deer in some states & county's in order to stop it. It can occur naturally so it wont ever be eradicated but the spread can be slowed down by limiting the population


I think you have EHD and CWD confused. CWD is the one that is speculated to be spread by too high a concentration of deer. I really wonder sometimes if they know exactly what causes it, I am just glad it has not yet been found here.
yep picked wrong disease name sorry
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#3655369 - 04/25/14 04:21 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: AT Hiker]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: AT Hiker
Im not one to argue with TWRA records, but 120,000 didnt kill one? I would like to see a breakdown of demographics on these people. Are they bird hunters and fisherman who buy a sportsmans tag, lifetime tag holders who dont deer hunt, relatives in town for a holiday, what? Im sure a laarge portion of them chose not to kill one as well. Then you got the folks who dont check them in, some say that number is not as high but I think it is higher than we think. For example; people using the landowner exemption, getting other people to check their kills in, killing more than the limit and not checking it in. We all know it happens, but to what extent is unknown. To be naive and say it is statistically irrelevant is the lazy way out.


For the serious deer hunters, it's hard to imagine, but it really is true that of the 200,000+ DEER hunters (not all hunters) in TN, less than half kill even one deer each year. Only around 1 in 3 deer hunters kill even one buck each year. I believe the serious deer hunters severely under-estimate how many deer hunters only hunt opening weekend of gun season, and then maybe again around Thanksgiving. The average number of days deer hunted by deer hunters in TN is shockingly low, even with almost 4 total months of some type of deer season open. And all of these success rate numbers have held amazingly consistent for about the last 10 years.

However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3655417 - 04/25/14 05:34 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19470
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.

Not only have you hit the nail on the head, but this, my friend, is thinking outside the box of just tabulating raw data!

THIS is why going from a 3-buck to a 2-buck limit may do much more for herd health than the data tabulators can imagine.

This issue is not so much how many hunters currently kill 3 bucks annually, or 2 bucks annually, but more about WHICH hunters consistently average killing 1 or more bucks annually. THESE are the hunters who will (by and large) voluntarily choose to raise their own standards on both their first and 2nd bucks when they do not have that 3rd buck tag. Not only will their actions improve buck:doe ratios and buck age structure, but these same actions will also increase the harvest success of those less-avid hunters who may only hunt a couple weekends a year during gun season.

Simply put, when the less avid go afield (mostly during the last half of November), there will be more bucks still living, increasing their odds of seeing one. (I suspect a lot more bucks will particularly survive the early November muzzleloader season.) At the same time, more bucks will survive period, herd dynamics and hunting opportunity improves for all hunters.

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#3656519 - 04/27/14 04:27 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Hoss
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 02/14/00
Posts: 1475
Loc: Hendersonville , TN

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I don't find it difficult at all to imagine the lack of success among hunters. I have been saying it for years the largest roadblock to improving hunting success and hunter satisfaction and recruitment is the lack of access to quality land. Many, Many, Many hunters in Tennessee would like to take a deer, any deer, but do not have access to quality private land. They are discouraged to hunt public land, often times due to a bad experience or horror story. So they may hunt once or twice on land that is marginally conducive to good deer hunting and give up. I personally know at least 2 or 3 dozen people who hunted a lot in the late eighties and early nineties that got out of hunting altogether or at least effectively becaue in their words, "I don't have any place to go."
So if you have access to quality deer hunting opportunities on private land be grateful! And be responsible, because I can tell you it can go away before you know it, even if you do nothing wrong!!


Edited by Hoss (04/27/14 04:29 PM)
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A mere shadow of the man I once was... Me!

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#3657103 - 04/28/14 09:34 AM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: BSK]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: AT Hiker
Im not one to argue with TWRA records, but 120,000 didnt kill one? I would like to see a breakdown of demographics on these people. Are they bird hunters and fisherman who buy a sportsmans tag, lifetime tag holders who dont deer hunt, relatives in town for a holiday, what? Im sure a laarge portion of them chose not to kill one as well. Then you got the folks who dont check them in, some say that number is not as high but I think it is higher than we think. For example; people using the landowner exemption, getting other people to check their kills in, killing more than the limit and not checking it in. We all know it happens, but to what extent is unknown. To be naive and say it is statistically irrelevant is the lazy way out.


For the serious deer hunters, it's hard to imagine, but it really is true that of the 200,000+ DEER hunters (not all hunters) in TN, less than half kill even one deer each year. Only around 1 in 3 deer hunters kill even one buck each year. I believe the serious deer hunters severely under-estimate how many deer hunters only hunt opening weekend of gun season, and then maybe again around Thanksgiving. The average number of days deer hunted by deer hunters in TN is shockingly low, even with almost 4 total months of some type of deer season open. And all of these success rate numbers have held amazingly consistent for about the last 10 years.

However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.


Exactly and there is another factor you might consider.

The age of TN hunters is increasing. I suspect there is a growing number who are like me and don't really care about killing a buck unless it is one that seriously belongs on their wall. Therefore, as with me, they might kill four or five does and be done.

We go sit and enjoy the woods and shoot the first doe that comes along and that is our hunt for the day. For some, it is the hunt for the year.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#3658527 - 04/29/14 03:29 PM Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline? [Re: Wes Parrish]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: BSK
However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.

Not only have you hit the nail on the head, but this, my friend, is thinking outside the box of just tabulating raw data!

THIS is why going from a 3-buck to a 2-buck limit may do much more for herd health than the data tabulators can imagine.

This issue is not so much how many hunters currently kill 3 bucks annually, or 2 bucks annually, but more about WHICH hunters consistently average killing 1 or more bucks annually. THESE are the hunters who will (by and large) voluntarily choose to raise their own standards on both their first and 2nd bucks when they do not have that 3rd buck tag. Not only will their actions improve buck:doe ratios and buck age structure, but these same actions will also increase the harvest success of those less-avid hunters who may only hunt a couple weekends a year during gun season.


A real possibility Wes. I don't think going to a 2 buck limit would help much, but it very well might.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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