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#3644735 - 04/14/14 06:30 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: Deer Assassin]
Deer Assassin
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Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 88400
Loc: Kingston Springs

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ozonics \:D
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#3645120 - 04/14/14 11:12 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: Deer Assassin]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3542
Loc: maury county tn

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 Originally Posted By: Deer Assassin
ozonics \:D


lol no comment but combine that with scent blocker and dead down wind aint nothing gunna smell you haha
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#3652223 - 04/22/14 09:59 AM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: BSK]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 976
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: BSK


Personally, I have no interest in hunting inside of a fenced property, no matter how large the acreage enclosed. But thinking some of these large high-fences don't provide a perfectly "fair chase" environment is foolishness.


Foolishness uh? I assume you do some work for high fence ranchers and you don't want to rub them the wrong way.

So you think the stakes are even for a free range deer versus a high fence deer? Not sure how that logic works, that high fence deer (regardless the size of the area) is more protected than the free range deer. Not to mention it is a lot easier to know what is in that high fence operation versus the other. Its like blind luck versus higher odds and a high fence has higher odds...therefore I just can't see the fair chase in it.


Fair chase needs a true definition. If free range is not in that definition then yes, some of those large high fence operations can offer "fair chase" and I completely agree with you. IMO fair chase and free range are connected.
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#3652342 - 04/22/14 11:46 AM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: AT Hiker]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: AT Hiker
 Originally Posted By: BSK


Personally, I have no interest in hunting inside of a fenced property, no matter how large the acreage enclosed. But thinking some of these large high-fences don't provide a perfectly "fair chase" environment is foolishness.


Foolishness uh? I assume you do some work for high fence ranchers and you don't want to rub them the wrong way.

So you think the stakes are even for a free range deer versus a high fence deer? Not sure how that logic works, that high fence deer (regardless the size of the area) is more protected than the free range deer. Not to mention it is a lot easier to know what is in that high fence operation versus the other. Its like blind luck versus higher odds and a high fence has higher odds...therefore I just can't see the fair chase in it.


Obviously, you don't know me well, and you've never been inside a large high fence. First, I don't care what my clients think of my views. If I did care, I wouldn't so freely express them. If they don't like my views, then don't hire me. Second, inside thousands and thousands of acres high-fenced, many deer have no idea they are contained. Their movements are not being constrained. I've worked inside high-fenced properties in TX that are so large, the majority of the deer inside the fence have never seen the fence. If a deer is never constrained by a fence, how can the presence of the fence effect their behavior?

Again, I've seen high-fenced properties large enough that the hunting is no different inside the fence than outside with the same level of hunter density and harvest control. THAT is the difference inside many high-fences--very tightly controlled hunter density and harvest control--not constraint of the animal. That said, personally, I have no interest in hunting inside a high-fence, no matter the size. It just doesn't feel right to me personally.


 Quote:
Fair chase needs a true definition. If free range is not in that definition then yes, some of those large high fence operations can offer "fair chase."


Don't get me wrong. I'm NOT in favor of changing the legal definition of fair chase. I have absolutely no problem with defining fair chase as requiring free range. In fact, I agree with that. I'm just saying that in reality, some high-fenced areas will produce a fair-chase experience.
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#3652467 - 04/22/14 02:08 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: BSK]
AT Hiker
6 Point


Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 976
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee

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I have been in a high fence in New Mexico, never hunted it, just had an opportunity to visit while driving through. The area had some of the largest elk I have ever seen, I can assure you those elk likely had no idea they were in a fence (they were not a migratory herd so that helped). But those elk are in a controlled environment, just like a high fence whitetail venture.

That is my point, as Im sure a large high fence ranch has the same issues we "free rangers" have (nocturnal, etc) but those animals are in a controlled environment. That has its pro's and con's for sure, but to say it is fair chase to me is far from the reality. I will agree and say its as close to reality as you can get, but nothing natural about it at the end of the day.

No I dont know you at all, I didnt mean to offend you either if I came across that way.
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#3652905 - 04/22/14 09:35 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: AT Hiker]
TX300mag
Pea Picker
14 Point


Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 8968
Loc: Crosby, TX

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I've hunted some fair chase (by definition) that were anything but challenging. Peninsulas surrounded by water and woods bordered by residential neighborhoods come to mind.
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#3653076 - 04/23/14 07:45 AM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: TX300mag]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: TX300mag
I've hunted some fair chase (by definition) that were anything but challenging.


And that's it once a fenced property gets above a certain size. The lower challenge is not due to the animals being constrained behind a fence. The lower challenge is the unnaturally low hunting and harvest pressure. And I've certainly seen free-range properties that fall into that category--where hunter densities are so low, and harvest pressure so controlled (no bucks harvested younger than full maturity) that many older bucks wander around in daylight with near impunity, displaying little fear of Man. Is hunting in that environment anything like what most hunters face? Absolutely not.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3653147 - 04/23/14 09:20 AM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: BSK]
TX300mag
Pea Picker
14 Point


Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 8968
Loc: Crosby, TX

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I support P&Y (B&C as well) in their rules. I'm generally opposed to high fences, but favor property rights of owners (it gets really conflicting in situations when you fence someone else IN).

I guess I'm not a fan of blanket ABSOLUTE statements that hunting outside a fence is ALWAYS more challenging than hunting inside one. I think broad generalizations are hurtful to both sides of the issue.
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#3653213 - 04/23/14 10:02 AM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: TX300mag]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1326
Loc: south TN

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I believe that even though I high fence area may be 10,000 acres, and the deer inside do not know they are fenced, it still isn't "fair-chase" in my book. That is because the owners control what is killed and who hunts, as well as can manipulate the genetics and nutrition inside that fence.

I also believe that the big time hunting operations that you go to up in the mid-west that say they are "100% fair-chase, no high fence" are not fair chase in my opinion just because they can control so much on who hunts it and what is killed off of it.

To me fair-chase is public land, or the small farms that a single buck may range onto 5-6 or more other peoples property. And also they turn almost nocturnal until the rut comes in. This is fair chase. What most everyday hunters deal with.

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#3653571 - 04/23/14 06:54 PM Re: P&Y Club statement on High Fence hunting [Re: woodsman87]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 786
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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Every club has a right to its own rules.

I appreciate a trophy, but I really enjoy the feeling of having my family eat something I harvested. If someone eats what they harvest--whether from private, public, or high-fence land--I don't give a flipping rip about it. If someone doesn't want to eat meat off of high-fenced land, perhaps that same person should re-think any grocery story meat. High-fences look like wide open plains compared to those confined spaces.

I don't want trophies so badly that I'd be willing to pay those kinds of prices, but I don't have the time that some people do to get out, scout, and chase one huge deer, in particular. In my experience, more often than not, there exists a relatively abundant neglect of family and responsibility in order to hunt like some people do.

For the guy who loves hunting and the amazing harvest feeling, but maybe only has one or two days per season, total, to go, I value his commitment to his family and his responsibilities far more than I value the meat-heads who literally leave house and home for a significant portion of the season over these four-legged bone-heads.

I also value the person who's willing to pay to get his harvest far more than I value the poachers.

All this to say, it's my opinion that there are FAR worse, far less-ethical things than legal high-fence hunting.
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