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#3587956 - 02/14/14 08:39 PM Air Force will take "appropriate action"
Bambi Buster
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Registered: 01/29/04
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"WASHINGTON — The Air Force is “disappointed” in the airman who appeared in a photo that is being circulated of her posing with her tongue in the mouth of the prisoner of war depicted on the iconic black-and-white POW/MIA emblem......"

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/air-force...-photo-1.267780
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#3588050 - 02/14/14 10:05 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: Bambi Buster]
de novo
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Registered: 07/21/08
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Crude but harmless pic. I'm sure with the lifting of DADT there's plenty more vulgar activities happening right now in the military.
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#3588093 - 02/14/14 11:09 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: de novo]
sgtwebb1
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Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 9836
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Bad taste? (pun intended) Yes

Punishable offense? NO

What Article of the UCMJ did she violate?
The POW/MIA emblem isn't a National emblem like the flag.
They can't get her for PDA (public display of affection).

I guess they'll say she committed conduct unbecoming an NCO, or whatever the wording is.
Probably get a reprimand like an Article 15.
Buncha politically correct Bravo Sierra.


Edited by sgtwebb1 (02/14/14 11:12 PM)
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#3588185 - 02/15/14 06:47 AM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: sgtwebb1]
Wildcat
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Sorry but this time I agree with the Air Force.

While the POW/MIA flag is not a OFFICAL flag it still stands right up there with the Vietnam vets.

For years after Vietnam I could not understand why that flag was flown beside official flags just under the American flag but level with all other flags. My Vietnam vets friends who was over there set me straight. Officially and publicly we got everybody out of both Vietnam and Korea but the vets told me there were quite a few who were left over there and were official listed as dead but never found. The US never really pushed to get them. They needed a "politically correct" way to get some kind of victory to get out. To the Vietnam vets that flag is for the "ones left behind".

Think of this. While the Unknown Solider was "officially" installed after WW I everybody knows good and well what he "stands for" and nobody but a nut would disrespect the Unknown Solider. Why would it be ok to disrespect the flag of those "left behind"????

Besides the Air Force is going to "take appropriate action at the appropriate level." So they are NOT going overboard like some think.

Guess some younger people don't understand. Wait 20 years and you will see people disrespecting the Gulf Wars vets.
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#3588212 - 02/15/14 07:20 AM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: Wildcat]
gobblinfool
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Registered: 11/29/12
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Punishment will depend upon rank, Conduct unbecoming is for NCO's/Officers, not Junior enlisted. We have all done some dumb things when we were younger....hopefully someday she will realize how disrespectful this is to all those that are POW/MIA. Makes you wonder what she was thinking, it is a different generation out there......
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#3588236 - 02/15/14 07:41 AM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: sgtwebb1]
BMan
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Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10503
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 Originally Posted By: sgtwebb1
Bad taste? (pun intended) Yes

Punishable offense? NO

What Article of the UCMJ did she violate?
The POW/MIA emblem isn't a National emblem like the flag.
They can't get her for PDA (public display of affection).

I guess they'll say she committed conduct unbecoming an NCO, or whatever the wording is.
Probably get a reprimand like an Article 15.
Buncha politically correct Bravo Sierra.

Agreed, but she won't even get an Article 15.

Article 15s are only offered if a person has committed an act that can be punished by a Court Martial; the Article 15 is the equivalent of pleading down before trial. Since there is no way in hades that her action is punishable by Court Martial - particularly since she was still an Airman when it occurred - an Article 15 is a non-player.

Her punishment will be subtler and will affect her career, though. LOR/LOC for starters, probably take a hit on an APR which will affect promotion and possibly re-enlistment. In my opinion, those actions will be just as wrong as what she did, but will be done to appease the people who are "offended".

She showed she's an idiot - leave it at that and let it go.
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#3588255 - 02/15/14 07:53 AM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: de novo]
Pic IN the Casa
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 Originally Posted By: de novo
Crude but harmless pic. I'm sure with the lifting of DADT there's plenty more vulgar activities happening right now in the military.


Bingo. And let's look into what our Commander in Chief has done before we waste time on this act.
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#3588846 - 02/15/14 04:27 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: BMan]
Zulu
4 Point


Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 206
Loc: Lakeland TN

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 Originally Posted By: BMan

Article 15s are only offered if a person has committed an act that can be punished by a Court Martial; the Article 15 is the equivalent of pleading down before trial. Since there is no way in hades that her action is punishable by Court Martial - particularly since she was still an Airman when it occurred - an Article 15 is a non-player.

Her punishment will be subtler and will affect her career, though. LOR/LOC for starters, probably take a hit on an APR which will affect promotion and possibly re-enlistment. In my opinion, those actions will be just as wrong as what she did, but will be done to appease the people who are "offended".

She showed she's an idiot - leave it at that and let it go.


If her chain of command really wanted to push it, they could give her an Article 15 or even a Summary/Special Court Martial under Article 134 "Conduct bringing discredit upon the armed forces." It's kind of a catch-all when nothing else seems to fit.
That being said, I agree with B-Man. I'd only go for Article 134 is she was a problem child that they were looking to get rid of. Otherwise a Letter of Reprimand or Letter of Counseling and maybe a downgraded performance report would be more appropriate.

Luckily the days of having to make those decisions are well behind me.

Z

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#3588858 - 02/15/14 04:43 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: Zulu]
pass-thru
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Registered: 10/10/04
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"Conduct bringing discredit upon the armed forces"

That is a terminal element of article 134 and not a charge in and of itself.

The best thing that come of this is that the air force takes a hard look and reinvigorating their values among their ranks, from top to bottom. Unfortunately, this didn't happen in a vacuum.

And they need to consider the ethics and values of their officers at the highest levels of command, where some pretty terrible examples are set.

Also unfortunately, none of this reevaluation will happen.

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#3590742 - 02/17/14 11:21 AM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: BMan]
Snowwolfe
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Registered: 12/02/13
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 Originally Posted By: BMan
[quote=sgtwebb1]LOR/LOC for starters, probably take a hit on an APR which will affect promotion and possibly re-enlistment.


AF did away with APR's at least 20 years ago. Changed the name to EPR's.

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#3590784 - 02/17/14 12:04 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: Snowwolfe]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10503
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 Originally Posted By: Snowwolfe
 Originally Posted By: BMan
[quote=sgtwebb1]LOR/LOC for starters, probably take a hit on an APR which will affect promotion and possibly re-enlistment.


AF did away with APR's at least 20 years ago. Changed the name to EPR's.

Same thing. Only now everyone gets firewall 5's instead of firewall 9's.

You're right, though, that change came a couple of years before I got out. About the same time they changed Master Sergeants to Senior Technical Sergeants. \:\/

And yes, I know there is no actual rank of Senior Technical Sergeant. If you had been an NCO when the change was made, you'd understand why it was stupid. Along with a host of other nonsensical changes that were occurring during those years.
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#3591528 - 02/17/14 09:54 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: BMan]
Bambi Buster
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Being disrespectful to the missing, and now to the fallen, seems to be all the rage these days.

".....MADISON, Wis. -Officials with the Wisconsin National Guard learned through social media that a National Guard member may have been posting inappropriate pictures of herself and other guard members during the funerals of fallen soldiers.
Around 6 p.m. Monday the Wisconsin National Guard released a statement on Facebook:

"It has come to the attention of the Wisconsin National Guard that a soldier may have posted inappropriate pictures and comments regarding their duties as a member of a Funeral Honor Guard. We are currently looking into the matter."...


http://www.fox47.com/newsroom/top_storie...rals-8932.shtml
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#3591542 - 02/17/14 10:09 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: Bambi Buster]
Bambi Buster
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8504
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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There are still some, however, who get it.

"....BAGRAM, Afghanistan — The first body was the most difficult. Pfc. Durell Siverand found a family portrait in the dead soldier’s wallet that showed him posing with his wife and two daughters. A mortar blast had killed him on the day he turned 21.

Siverand, one year older, had landed in Afghanistan less than three weeks earlier with the 54th Quartermaster Company of the 82nd Sustainment Brigade...."



Full story at link:
http://www.stripes.com/death-shapes-life...t-home-1.267704
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#3591679 - 02/18/14 06:11 AM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: Bambi Buster]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
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 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
Being disrespectful to the missing, and now to the fallen, seems to be all the rage these days.

".....MADISON, Wis. -Officials with the Wisconsin National Guard learned through social media that a National Guard member may have been posting inappropriate pictures of herself and other guard members during the funerals of fallen soldiers.
Around 6 p.m. Monday the Wisconsin National Guard released a statement on Facebook:

"It has come to the attention of the Wisconsin National Guard that a soldier may have posted inappropriate pictures and comments regarding their duties as a member of a Funeral Honor Guard. We are currently looking into the matter."...


http://www.fox47.com/newsroom/top_storie...rals-8932.shtml


Disgusting but how can we expect more from the ranks when the CIC himself shows no more respect that this?
- selfies at funerals and "All this for a flag?"

The effects of lowered standards are evident from the top down.

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#3592873 - 02/18/14 09:09 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: Crappie Luck]
smstone22
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Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16900
Loc: Allardt, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
Being disrespectful to the missing, and now to the fallen, seems to be all the rage these days.

".....MADISON, Wis. -Officials with the Wisconsin National Guard learned through social media that a National Guard member may have been posting inappropriate pictures of herself and other guard members during the funerals of fallen soldiers.
Around 6 p.m. Monday the Wisconsin National Guard released a statement on Facebook:

"It has come to the attention of the Wisconsin National Guard that a soldier may have posted inappropriate pictures and comments regarding their duties as a member of a Funeral Honor Guard. We are currently looking into the matter."...


http://www.fox47.com/newsroom/top_storie...rals-8932.shtml


Disgusting but how can we expect more from the ranks when the CIC himself shows no more respect that this?
- selfies at funerals and "All this for a flag?"

The effects of lowered standards are evident from the top down.



There is actually a TN Guard soldier in that pic. It is being investigated to ID that person, I can assure you that.
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#3592967 - 02/18/14 11:23 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: smstone22]
LanceS4803
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Registered: 12/04/10
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There was an interesting comment to the Star and Stripes story about the Airman. Apparently she was a little hostile in her response to the controversy.
"I notice in her Facebook statement that Byers forgot to say the two most important words: "I'm sorry.""
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#3594175 - 02/19/14 10:38 PM Re: Air Force will take "appropriate action" [Re: LanceS4803]
Bambi Buster
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8504
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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"Another soldier suspended in casket photo controversy
Wisconsin guardsman had defended the photo on social media..."


http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140219/NEWS02/302190025/Soldier-suspended-defending-empty-casket-photo
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