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#3556667 - 01/22/14 08:40 AM Your land or my lannd... ?
plinker22
16 Point


Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 12566
Loc: Mountians of East Tennessee

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For years I have heard that if someone takes care of a piece of land for a certain period of time... they can legally claim ownership of that land?

Is this a "law" in TN?

Specific to my question:
Say one person owns a 22 ac piece of land. Title/deed map at the court house shows the corners of land with very specific markings. However, a neighbor (the owners hired mower) has been mowing 3 acres of that land for a long time (unsure of how many years, but possible decades). This neighbor cannot just be talked to, as they are surrounded by many layers of security. I assume their attorney/representative will have to be contacted to began to determine true "ownership" of this piece of land.

So, because they have mowed this portion of property for a number of years, can they claim it as theirs?


NOTE: I have posted this in the General Forum as well, but assume I will get many armchair attorney opinions there, you guys prove to me this where I should have asked this question. \:D
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#3556707 - 01/22/14 09:03 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: plinker22]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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Not that I'm aware of, but a lawyer can probably give you a definitive answer. In property disputes I've seen, everything came down to the legal boundaries. The one unique thing I've seen in TN is property line disputes may be decided by the oldest known markings on the ground (fence/paint-markings) instead of the legal description in the deed.
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#3556774 - 01/22/14 09:41 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: BSK]
tellico4x4
6 Point


Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 939
Loc: Killen, AL

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We lost a couple of acres in Kentucky one time by this. My father worked for TVA for 40+ years and he was at KY Dam when they closed the gates and formed the lake. Some point after the lake hit full pool, TVA offered excess land that they had acquired to their employees. Dad bought 20 acres, and then a few years later moved to Middle TN. Fast forward about 30 years and after he died, and we dealing with the estate, we found out that somone had actually built a house on the property line with about half of it on us. Long story short, we lost in court and had to deed a little over two acres to them since they had maintained it for years...
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#3556938 - 01/22/14 11:37 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: tellico4x4]
plinker22
16 Point


Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 12566
Loc: Mountians of East Tennessee

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Thank you BSK.
Ouch at your loss tellico4X4.
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#3557008 - 01/22/14 12:33 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: plinker22]
Boll Weevil
8 Point


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 1280
Loc: Hardeman

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I don't mean to spread falsehoods if this isn't true but have also heard of land being acquired for "x" years of delinquent back-taxes. Oftentimes, it's difficult to produce a clear title when ground has been cut up and handed down over the years and/or the legal owner is out of state, deceased (without a will), or otherwise out of touch with their ownership responsibilities.

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#3557025 - 01/22/14 12:44 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: BSK]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 16650
Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Not that I'm aware of, but a lawyer can probably give you a definitive answer. In property disputes I've seen, everything came down to the legal boundaries. The one unique thing I've seen in TN is property line disputes may be decided by the oldest known markings on the ground (fence/paint-markings) instead of the legal description in the deed.


this is more true on many of the older legal descriptions since they were not performed by a Registered Land Surveyor, registered surveying laws came to being sometime around 1968 going on memory
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#3557107 - 01/22/14 01:56 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: Chaneylake]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65683
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Chaneylake
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Not that I'm aware of, but a lawyer can probably give you a definitive answer. In property disputes I've seen, everything came down to the legal boundaries. The one unique thing I've seen in TN is property line disputes may be decided by the oldest known markings on the ground (fence/paint-markings) instead of the legal description in the deed.


this is more true on many of the older legal descriptions since they were not performed by a Registered Land Surveyor, registered surveying laws came to being sometime around 1968 going on memory


Thanks Chaney. That makes perfect sense.

On a side note, I HATE using those hundred-year-old deed descriptions when mapping a property. The survey calls are usually like "...approximately 40 chains in a southeasterly direction to an oak tree..." Oh, that's really helpful...
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#3557113 - 01/22/14 01:59 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: BSK]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 16650
Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Chaneylake
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Not that I'm aware of, but a lawyer can probably give you a definitive answer. In property disputes I've seen, everything came down to the legal boundaries. The one unique thing I've seen in TN is property line disputes may be decided by the oldest known markings on the ground (fence/paint-markings) instead of the legal description in the deed.


this is more true on many of the older legal descriptions since they were not performed by a Registered Land Surveyor, registered surveying laws came to being sometime around 1968 going on memory


Thanks Chaney. That makes perfect sense.

On a side note, I HATE using those hundred-year-old deed descriptions when mapping a property. The survey calls are usually like "...approximately 40 chains in a southeasterly direction to an oak tree..." Oh, that's really helpful...


that is a major problem and one of the real reasons that any natural or man make corner marker will out weigh a given deed call
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#3557611 - 01/22/14 09:10 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: Chaneylake]
plinker22
16 Point


Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 12566
Loc: Mountians of East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Chaneylake
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Chaneylake
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Not that I'm aware of, but a lawyer can probably give you a definitive answer. In property disputes I've seen, everything came down to the legal boundaries. The one unique thing I've seen in TN is property line disputes may be decided by the oldest known markings on the ground (fence/paint-markings) instead of the legal description in the deed.


this is more true on many of the older legal descriptions since they were not performed by a Registered Land Surveyor, registered surveying laws came to being sometime around 1968 going on memory


Thanks Chaney. That makes perfect sense.

On a side note, I HATE using those hundred-year-old deed descriptions when mapping a property. The survey calls are usually like "...approximately 40 chains in a southeasterly direction to an oak tree..." Oh, that's really helpful...


that is a major problem and one of the real reasons that any natural or man make corner marker will out weigh a given deed call


I hear that. One of the corners on this property says:
"Iron Pin at large oak stump" \:D \:D \:D
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#3557707 - 01/22/14 11:53 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: plinker22]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 16650
Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...

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 Originally Posted By: plinker22
 Originally Posted By: Chaneylake
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Chaneylake
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Not that I'm aware of, but a lawyer can probably give you a definitive answer. In property disputes I've seen, everything came down to the legal boundaries. The one unique thing I've seen in TN is property line disputes may be decided by the oldest known markings on the ground (fence/paint-markings) instead of the legal description in the deed.


this is more true on many of the older legal descriptions since they were not performed by a Registered Land Surveyor, registered surveying laws came to being sometime around 1968 going on memory


Thanks Chaney. That makes perfect sense.

On a side note, I HATE using those hundred-year-old deed descriptions when mapping a property. The survey calls are usually like "...approximately 40 chains in a southeasterly direction to an oak tree..." Oh, that's really helpful...


that is a major problem and one of the real reasons that any natural or man make corner marker will out weigh a given deed call


I hear that. One of the corners on this property says:
"Iron Pin at large oak stump" \:D \:D \:D


a good metal detector just might find an iron pin or a pocket of rust, the good surveyor can make the pocket of rust stand in court
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#3557840 - 01/23/14 07:42 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: plinker22]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65683
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: plinker22
I hear that. One of the corners on this property says:
"Iron Pin at large oak stump" \:D \:D \:D


One of the corner descriptors for my place says: "a 13-inch white pointer" (white oak tree). Umm, that was a 100 years ago. That tree is either long gone or a heck of a lot bigger than 13"!
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#3557984 - 01/23/14 09:20 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: BSK]
woodsman87
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1312
Loc: south TN

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Looks like I might just find somebody's land and start taking care of it. Maybe my kids and grand kids can get some prime hunting land!
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#3558026 - 01/23/14 09:58 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: woodsman87]
Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 16650
Loc: on the wings of a snow white d...

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 Originally Posted By: woodsman87
Looks like I might just find somebody's land and start taking care of it. Maybe my kids and grand kids can get some prime hunting land!


its possible if you can establish the following criteria:

it has to be done "clearly, openly, outright and notorious"

this is the rule of thumb that most courts abide by, miss one of the 4 and the courts will say "sorry charlie"
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#3558447 - 01/23/14 04:17 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: Chaneylake]
plinker22
16 Point


Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 12566
Loc: Mountians of East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Chaneylake


it has to be done "clearly, openly, outright and notorious"

this is the rule of thumb that most courts abide by,


There 4 and over what time period???
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#3576823 - 02/05/14 06:28 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: plinker22]
SALTMAN
8 Point


Registered: 08/12/01
Posts: 1412
Loc: Cadiz Ky

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Wish we had a lawyer on here familiar with this ! I had a landowner in Williamson co ( big east fork rd ) tell me he lost 10 acres to a neighbor that had been using it for seven years. The catch was that he had not opposed or confronted the man during a 7 yr period . Think it's called homesteading but not sure , and not sure if its a nationwide thing or just Tn. But he lost it after going to court .
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#3576841 - 02/05/14 06:38 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: SALTMAN]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16926
Loc: Allardt, TN

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Some of my kin have been in a situation like this recently and it is now resolved. They had a place that had never been surveyed because it had been in the family for a very long time and no one wanted to pay for it. They started cutting timber, and recognized that a fence was placed by a neighbor on what the kin thought to be their own property. The kin hired a lawyer and a surveyor. The surveyor found the oldest known markings ( 4 different kinds of fencing inside a tree) and called that the corner. The amount in question was 60 acres which seems like alot but really isnt much to them. It went to court and the oldest markings won even though the fence had been up quite a few years and the 60 acres is now solidly theirs. With anything like this, you best just consult an attorney.
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#3577026 - 02/05/14 08:39 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: SALTMAN]
FTG-05
Button


Registered: 11/26/13
Posts: 15
Loc: SW Lincoln County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: SALTMAN
Wish we had a lawyer on here familiar with this ! I had a landowner in Williamson co ( big east fork rd ) tell me he lost 10 acres to a neighbor that had been using it for seven years. The catch was that he had not opposed or confronted the man during a 7 yr period . Think it's called homesteading but not sure , and not sure if its a nationwide thing or just Tn. But he lost it after going to court .


It's called "adverse possession". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession

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#3577277 - 02/06/14 07:13 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: FTG-05]
DaveB
10 Point


Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 4333
Loc: Shelby County

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Yep. Plenty of case history on this topic. There is also law that exists in TN. It is called "Easement by Prescription". You don't actually lose the land. What happens is you can't stop the use of that land by someone else until the person(s) exercising the easement gives it up.

My leaseowner had this problem with the road the neighbor cut into the property. Lucky she is a laawyer and took prompt care to stop the prescription from becoming a legal fact.

Ever see those brass inserts in a sidewalk or what you thought was a public area? "Permission to pass may be revoked at any time". Yep, that stops easement by prescription.

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#3577995 - 02/06/14 04:32 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: DaveB]
tailchaser
6 Point


Registered: 08/14/13
Posts: 600
Loc: Tennessee

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I have heard something like this to, that if you use the land for so many years and there was no lease or anyone objecting your using it, you could go get a quick claim deed to that piece of land,don't know the details or if true but heard it from a realtor.
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#3585235 - 02/12/14 04:48 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: tailchaser]
plinker22
16 Point


Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 12566
Loc: Mountians of East Tennessee

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A quick update:
The other party has been contacted (I received a call from their land attorney). I had gathered all deed/land survey's from courthouse documents. I reviewed these with a survey company (my land owner did not want to pay for a survey).

Now, the other party had is hiring a survey company to survey the land.

I hope this comes to a good resolution for my friend. For what it is worth, I did find a "large oak stump" (about 30" across that is almost totally rotted away) and the "large hickory tree" exactly where my land owners deed says they should be.

Any more recommendations?
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#3586177 - 02/13/14 12:06 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: plinker22]
Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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yep,Id pm Chaneylake,he seems to be in the know on surveying.
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#3594882 - 02/20/14 03:57 PM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: Chaneylake]
String Music
8 Point


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 1715
Loc: Knoxville

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To claim it after 7 years, he must have a document that incorrectly states he has title to the land. Otherwise, he will have to of openly and continuously used the property without the landowner's consent.



Edited by String Music (02/20/14 03:58 PM)
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#3605441 - 03/03/14 09:19 AM Re: Your land or my lannd... ? [Re: String Music]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4857
Loc: medon,Tn.

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So, patrol your property on a regular basis, and defend the boundaries if necessary.
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