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#3480331 - 12/02/13 01:02 PM QDM paying off big time!
deaddownwind
4 Point


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 227
Loc: TN

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This buck limit forum got me thinking. Just because you have a three buck limit doesnt meant you have to kill three! For at least ten years, several neighbors in my area have been trying not to kill anything under 130" and/or 4.5. Several deer over 150" and many many between 130-150" have been taken in this area. This group also tries to take deer that are 4.5 or older with inferior racks (eg. short tine 8's, big 6's, etc...) while letting a larger antlered 3.5 go. The average hunter in that area will kill 3 bucks every two years I'd say. Over those years great success has been achieved using this method. You hear it all from other locals from "ya'll have better genetics over there" to "our deer don't get that big" Bla bla bla..... In the past few years others have started letting young 2.5 year olds walk and trying to kill a 3.5 or older deer with a little success. Each year it has been getting better. More people in the area are killing deer over 125" consistently. It seems that alot of people are getting the idea of "that if I don't kill it someone else will" out of their head. The main thing to learn there is that if "you kill the deer, there is 0% chance you will see what he is next year". If you let him go, at least he has a chance. Sure, others will kill deer you let "walk" but thats part of hunting and QDM in the free range world. I've had the people that shoot three 2.5's beside me every year. I know it's not fun seeing "Jack" kill all the deer you're letting go. They too will eventually mess up and kill a big one and see the light. At least that has happened in most cases I have witnessed. I see people on here complaining saying deer in TN can't have big bodies or antlers because we do not have the "genetics". Genetics definately help the antler and body size, but without age and good food sources, genetics are nothing. I would say the average buck killed in a 6 or 7 mile radius of where I hunt has went up 10" in the last 5 years because of QDM. People see others killing big deer around them and want to do the same. Within that 6 0r 7 mile radius, there have been 5 deer 150-165" and 12 between 130-149" already this year. The largest field dressed body weight being #208 and #205. Pretty cool to see what letting deer get age on them will do. I enjoy seeing people truly excited about killing a deer instead of shooting the same 2.5 year old eight point ever year, cutting the rack off, and throwing antlers in a box in the barn because "deer don't get big in TN". Shoot a doe if you want meat and let the young bucks grow another year if you dont like TN deer size. Just my thoughts. Happy Hunting everyone!
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#3480400 - 12/02/13 01:42 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: deaddownwind]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

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My in-laws join the 6-7 mile radius and thier neighbors kill 5 deer a piece! Yeah I said 5! Ive seen what deaddownwind's group is doing and envy em. Another thing that helps all is yall control 1,000's of acres! Most can't control that much....like me 120 acres and fools on every edge!
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#3480438 - 12/02/13 01:55 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: wobblegobble]
hunterncoach
6 Point


Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 706
Loc: northern middle tn

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 Originally Posted By: wobblegobble
My in-laws join the 6-7 mile radius and thier neighbors kill 5 deer a piece! Yeah I said 5! Ive seen what deaddownwind's group is doing and envy em. Another thing that helps all is yall control 1,000's of acres! Most can't control that much....like me 120 acres and fools on every edge!
You are right, but all it takes is a couple guys inviting the fellas who hunt around them to a barbeque...give 'em some cold beer and try to start working together. We've done that and in some cases it works, others it doesn't, but thats all you can do in these type situations

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#3480460 - 12/02/13 02:13 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: deaddownwind]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

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Here are a couple of the deer , missing a few.
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
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#3480469 - 12/02/13 02:16 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: wobblegobble]
utfan1
10 Point


Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 4265
Loc: cleveland,tn

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true to all of that. tn can grow good deer.
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#3480532 - 12/02/13 02:41 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: utfan1]
Jmed
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 345
Loc: Ooltewah

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I agree and applaud. We are seeing the results of letting the little ones walk as well.
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#3480589 - 12/02/13 03:14 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Jmed]
Savage
8 Point


Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 1705
Loc: Crossville, TN

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Awesome guys.

Here is my biggest issue. I have a 90 acre tract to hunt. Its long and narrow. No opportunity to plant food plot, develop it, etc. Its a working cattle farm.

I cant keep every buck on that property ALL the time. If you have one neighbor that doesnt adhere to QDM, it ruins the entire model. I may pass on that 120" 2 YO 8 point, but my neighbor who is used to shooting 18 m.o. deer may think he's a trophy and bust him.

Ive been passing immature deer for 12 years. In that time period, Ive killed 3 3.5yo bucks, and one 4.5. Ive literally passed probably 100 small bucks in the same time period, and at one time was running 8 trail cams. I have only 3 occurences during that time when I KNOW for a fact that I got pics of a 2.5 year old deer, and then pics of the same deer the following year.

QDM will work. It works good on large tracts of land where the deer basically stay on the same property all season. It works GREAT when everyone that may see that same deer are on the same playing field and of like mind set. A large majority of Tennesseans adhere to this mindset; however, for those of us hunting small pieces of property, the quality of deer will not reach its full potential with a 3 buck limit. We are limited on the size of deer we kill by the person in the area who has the lowest standards.
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#3480607 - 12/02/13 03:34 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Savage]
TheRealSpurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland & Bedford CO

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I applaud your efforts Deaddownwind.
How much land do you run, and what county?
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#3480678 - 12/02/13 04:36 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: TheRealSpurhunter]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 18623
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.

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To each his own but when you see a 125"+ rack come bobbing through he woods towards you it's not the same as seeing those 100 inchers....and those 100 inchers don't make 125"+ by dying young. I fully understand the frustration of many hunters hunting smaller tracts of land because it's almost impossible to affect the dynamics of the buck population by their individual hunting styles and I wish I could offer a solution to their problem. Seeing and killing larger racked bucks can be very addictive and it can be contagious. It might be a wise move to sponsor some type of land owner/lease get together and put some type of plan on the board. You might be surprised.
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#3480783 - 12/02/13 05:34 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Mike Belt]
Crosshairy
10 Point


Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2701
Loc: Bartlett, TN

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Whenever I get into these discussions, it always ends with me thinking "I need to accumulate a pile of money to buy land".

Then, I realize that I will never have enough money to buy the amount of land I need to implement a strong QDM program. I just despise the idea of spending big bucks every year to gain zero equity in anything (in leasing land), but maybe that still is my best option.

In a nutshell, I want to shoot 2-3 does a year for meat, and then have a reasonable chance at a respectable buck (say, 110"+)

My current situation - low expectations on buck quality, keep hunting public land (FREE), and shoot does when I get the chance.

Mike - as someone who hunts at Ames, do they offer members the chance to fill the freezer, or is it really only about antlers? I know you are allowed to shoot does at some point, but I don't recall the specifics.
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#3480932 - 12/02/13 06:38 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Crosshairy]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Love to hear of your success deaddownwind. I keep trying to tell people/hunters that it doesn't take a huge amount of money or a huge amount of land to see some successes with QDM harvest guidelines in place. Even just a patchwork quilt of properties practicing QDM will make a difference.

At the same time, I still want to caution many to not create unrealistic expectations FOR THEIR AREA. A hunter must take into account the level of over-all hunting pressure, and the quality of the local habitat before setting goals. Sky-high goals in an area of limited potential is going to lead to some unhappy and disgruntled hunters.

What I'm getting at is there are places in TN where simply allowing bucks a couple more years of age will produce a considerable number of 125-135 gross bucks, and even a few 150+ inch bucks each year. But that isn't the case for MOST of TN.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3480951 - 12/02/13 06:55 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
Rackseeker
12 Point


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 5799
Loc: Franklin County

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What yall are doing has to be helping but the acorn crop in the mountains has something to do with it. Most of the deer are low this year, using the fields at night. Deer are going to where the food is and the acorns aren't in the mountains this year. One of the worse years I can remember as far as a acorn crop.

Edited by Rackseeker (12/02/13 06:59 PM)
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#3481002 - 12/02/13 07:24 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Rackseeker]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

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 Originally Posted By: Rackseeker
What yall are doing has to be helping but the acorn crop in the mountains has something to do with it. Most of the deer are low this year, using the fields at night. Deer are going to where the food is and the acorns aren't in the mountains this year. One of the worse years I can remember as far as a acorn crop.

This is not a one time thing, they shoot 140 inch deer or better every year.
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#3481061 - 12/02/13 07:44 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: wobblegobble]
Rackseeker
12 Point


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 5799
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: wobblegobble
 Originally Posted By: Rackseeker
What yall are doing has to be helping but the acorn crop in the mountains has something to do with it. Most of the deer are low this year, using the fields at night. Deer are going to where the food is and the acorns aren't in the mountains this year. One of the worse years I can remember as far as a acorn crop.

This is not a one time thing, they shoot 140 inch deer or better every year.



That area of the county isn't the only part of the county that produces 140"+ deer every year. You just don't hear as much about them on here. Cutting out most of the atv riding, abundant food source, and QDM all factors in on the results in that area.
Keep posting all those pics and details maybe it will take some of the pressure off other land in the county.LOL...
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#3481103 - 12/02/13 08:08 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Rackseeker]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

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No one said it was only area, he said this is what qdm can do. Like he said more 130's have been killed this year than ever from all around the county. The atv riding didn't hurt hunting anyhow, those deer were so use to seeing atv's they didn't spooked.
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#3481108 - 12/02/13 08:10 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: wobblegobble]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

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There have been 3 deer that scored 155-165 killed in Mingo n lexie areas in the last 2 weeks.
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#3481126 - 12/02/13 08:23 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: wobblegobble]
Rackseeker
12 Point


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 5799
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: wobblegobble
The atv riding didn't hurt hunting anyhow, those deer were so use to seeing atv's they didn't spooked.


They are use to farm trucks to, thats what gets a lot of those deer killed down around that area. LOL.. All kiddin aside that is a awesome area for sure.
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#3481152 - 12/02/13 08:34 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Rackseeker]
primos32
6 Point


Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 863
Loc: Savannah, TN

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Congrats on your success! It's addictive when you start seeing results like that and there's always something it seems you can do to try to make it better. Keep up the good work.
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#3481182 - 12/02/13 08:46 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: primos32]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12924
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

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one thing for sure,qdm really works because this area is rough terrain.i have seen a major difference in my area as well
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#3481254 - 12/02/13 09:11 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4102
Loc: Hardin, Co.

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Success breeds success. We have some what of a co-op going (4 or 5 land owners).And it's seems to me that our bucks have gained around 10 inches or more for older age class bucks the last few years. There was a article in the QDMA magazine last year that talked about a maternial effect, and how it takes a couple generations for things to improve. My question is how much can it keeping improving, will it top out or will success keep breeding success?
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" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold

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#3481520 - 12/03/13 05:55 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Rackseeker
12 Point


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 5799
Loc: Franklin County

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I just wish we could get everyone on board to practice QDM on our lease. The deer that need passing are the ones that are getting killed on our lease. We have a 8pt or better rule but most 8pt that get killed are 2.5 year old. Are a lot of the hunters in that area planting food plots in the fields?
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#3481595 - 12/03/13 07:10 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Crosshairy]
Spikes Tactical
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1270
Loc: Greer, South Carolina

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congrats - great buck
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#3481618 - 12/03/13 07:24 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Rackseeker]
deaddownwind
4 Point


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 227
Loc: TN

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There are some in the fields and alot of small ones in the Mtn. The field food plots are mostly crop fields not actually "deer" food plots which work the same or better obviously. Where most of the consistent big deer are killed there have been no atv rides through the areas in many many years. I know the guys personally that kill the big ones consistently and they always see the numbers they are seeing this year. The cool thing that I was applauding was that alot more people around are letting the 2.5 year olds walk. We are fortunate to have so many people pulling together to have such great success.
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#3481734 - 12/03/13 08:38 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: deaddownwind]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: deaddownwind
The cool thing that I was applauding was that alot more people around are letting the 2.5 year olds walk. We are fortunate to have so many people pulling together to have such great success.


And that's what it takes to see the kind of success you are experiencing. Glad it's working for you!
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3481744 - 12/03/13 08:43 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 8 POINTS OR BETTER
There was a article in the QDMA magazine last year that talked about a maternial effect, and how it takes a couple generations for things to improve. My question is how much can it keeping improving, will it top out or will success keep breeding success?


Improvements due specifically to the maternal health effect would begin with deer born the first year does are considerably healthier all year than they had been in the past. The newborn deer must then live to near maturity to see the benefits.

All management programs eventually "max out." How far "maximum" is depends on the local area, especially deer density and hunter density (harvest pressure). Areas of high deer density and low hunter density will have a much higher "maximum level" than areas with low deer densities and high hunter densities.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3504599 - 12/17/13 11:56 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4102
Loc: Hardin, Co.

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: 8 POINTS OR BETTER
There was a article in the QDMA magazine last year that talked about a maternial effect, and how it takes a couple generations for things to improve. My question is how much can it keeping improving, will it top out or will success keep breeding success?


Improvements due specifically to the maternal health effect would begin with deer born the first year does are considerably healthier all year than they had been in the past. The newborn deer must then live to near maturity to see the benefits.

All management programs eventually "max out." How far "maximum" is depends on the local area, especially deer density and hunter density (harvest pressure). Areas of high deer density and low hunter density will have a much higher "maximum level" than areas with low deer densities and high hunter densities.



Here is what I was talking about BSK
Here are some quotes from the study.

“It means that if you do habitat manipulations to try to improve habitat for deer, don’t expect the population to respond within one generation, especially if the animals have been on a low-quality diet for a long period of time,” Jenks said.

'Instead, managers must consider the possibility of time lags that could persist for multiple generations even as animal populations respond to improved environmental conditions'

"Biologists have known about the lag between improved diet and improved condition of animals, but they haven’t known why it takes place. Some previous studies have concluded that a time lag in population response to improved conditions was a direct result of the delay in recovery of vegetation.

Jenks said the SDSU study offers clear evidence that an important factor in that time lag can be intergenerational maternal effects in a population that experienced stress'


Edited by 8 POINTS OR BETTER (12/17/13 11:58 AM)
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" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold

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#3504673 - 12/17/13 01:03 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
G8rntn
8 Point


Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 2052
Loc: Cleveland, Tn

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What county are these pics from? Nice deer by the way!
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#3504858 - 12/17/13 03:34 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: G8rntn]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Yup, I'm aware of that research 8 POINTS, and I agree with it.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3505066 - 12/17/13 06:13 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25536
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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How long is a deer "generation"?
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#3505069 - 12/17/13 06:17 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Football Hunter]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
How long is a deer "generation"?


Depends on how the term is being used. Often, it is used to refer to how long it takes for the entire deer population to roll over (all new deer), which is approximately 7 years. However, if it is used in a reproductive sense, then 1-2 years, as most females produce their first offspring right around their 2nd birthday (although a few produce their first offspring on their 1st birthday [bred as a fawn]).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3505111 - 12/17/13 06:37 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: wobblegobble]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 15381
Loc: Lewisburg

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 Originally Posted By: wobblegobble
Here are a couple of the deer , missing a few.
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]
[img]http:// [/img]




some super nice deer. if the dude in bottom pic pushes that deer any closer to the camera, his antlers are gonna scratch the lens
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#3519474 - 12/28/13 09:40 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Crosshairy]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

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These are the kinda deer that are killed around the 10 radius of no east Tn massacres! There have been more monsters killed since then. Around my farm I don't have the luxury of everyone on the same page and can't do it like some of my friends and family. None of these guys kill any does...
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"pants on the floor!"

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#3519519 - 12/28/13 10:28 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: wobblegobble]
volunteer1
4 Point


Registered: 10/02/12
Posts: 352
Loc: east tn

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Wobble..can a deer like that be killed in the 10.5 mile radius as well or does the quality just drop off? How bout 10.3.
Dude...you have been posting the most halarious and non belivable threads the past few days. Seriously, I can't tell if you are a 11 year old kid who has hacked his moms computer and posting random crap....or a 25 year old drunk that just post stuff for the hell of it....or a grown ignorant adult that unfortunately doesn't know any better in life..

Which ever one it is keep em coming man...their halarious!!!

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#3519578 - 12/28/13 11:17 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: volunteer1]
TENN.BOY
4 Point


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 455
Loc: Halls

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My theory is if you dont let the younger bucks walk you will never know what he could have been .I get sick of hearing people say if I let him walk my neighber will kill him, that is just a selfish excuse of saying I wanted to shoot that 2.5yr old 6pnt, and then go to work on monday morning and brag about it and then go home and get on the forums and B..ch about not seeing any big mature bucks in his area anymore......if we all have that same mentality we will never see the big bucks we want in the state of Tn. I just dont understand why some guys want to kill 3 bucks a year, if you want to fill your freezer put a tag on a couple of does and let those young bucks walk !!!!!!!! THATS JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH ........
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#3519584 - 12/28/13 11:28 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: volunteer1]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

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 Originally Posted By: volunteer1
Wobble..can a deer like that be killed in the 10.5 mile radius as well or does the quality just drop off? How bout 10.3.
Dude...you have been posting the most halarious and non belivable threads the past few days. Seriously, I can't tell if you are a 11 year old kid who has hacked his moms computer and posting random crap....or a 25 year old drunk that just post stuff for the hell of it....or a grown ignorant adult that unfortunately doesn't know any better in life..

Which ever one it is keep em coming man...their halarious!!!

I garantee you are a brown and down fool! You don't have a clue on how things are done.
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"pants on the floor!"

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#3519633 - 12/28/13 12:21 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Rackseeker]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4083
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Rackseeker
I just wish we could get everyone on board to practice QDM on our lease. The deer that need passing are the ones that are getting killed on our lease. We have a 8pt or better rule but most 8pt that get killed are 2.5 year old. Are a lot of the hunters in that area planting food plots in the fields?



Too bad, 8 points or better rule has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOY A THING to do with QDM.
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#3519656 - 12/28/13 12:39 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: 102]
volunteer1
4 Point


Registered: 10/02/12
Posts: 352
Loc: east tn

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You just proved my point brother!
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#3519952 - 12/28/13 04:51 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
Frank G
8 Point


Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 1409
Loc: Hardin Co, TN Pickwick Lake

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It is worth the wait, passing the smaller guys.They grow up to be quality deer.
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#3520095 - 12/28/13 06:31 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: 102]
mathews338
12 Point


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 5409
Loc: jackson co.

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 Originally Posted By: 102
 Originally Posted By: Rackseeker
I just wish we could get everyone on board to practice QDM on our lease. The deer that need passing are the ones that are getting killed on our lease. We have a 8pt or better rule but most 8pt that get killed are 2.5 year old. Are a lot of the hunters in that area planting food plots in the fields?



Too bad, 8 points or better rule has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOY A THING to do with QDM.
better than having NO RULE in place, right?

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#3520255 - 12/28/13 08:51 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: mathews338]
KillenTime
4 Point


Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 257
Loc: West Tn.

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I wonder in all of these threads killing predators such as coyotes is never mentioned as part of a QDM plan? What's your take on it?
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#3520315 - 12/28/13 09:33 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: KillenTime]
bbuck14
8 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 1231
Loc: West Tn.

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People would be surprised how much it helps to talk to adjoining landowners and hunters about a big buck program. You'll get more cooperation then some would think. If not then as Lee Lakosky says " don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution." You'll never have a chance at a big one if you shoot it when it's young.
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#3520373 - 12/28/13 10:33 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: 102]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12924
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 102
 Originally Posted By: Rackseeker
I just wish we could get everyone on board to practice QDM on our lease. The deer that need passing are the ones that are getting killed on our lease. We have a 8pt or better rule but most 8pt that get killed are 2.5 year old. Are a lot of the hunters in that area planting food plots in the fields?



Too bad, 8 points or better rule has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOY A THING to do with QDM.
it is a very,very good start

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#3520474 - 12/29/13 05:47 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
bbuck14
8 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 1231
Loc: West Tn.

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When we started ours it was don't shoot it unless your mounting it. Over the years we killed so many everyone knew what we should and shouldn't be killing. Juvenile hunters could shoot whatever.
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#3522316 - 12/30/13 11:29 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: KillenTime]
deaddownwind
4 Point


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 227
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: KillenTime
I wonder in all of these threads killing predators such as coyotes is never mentioned as part of a QDM plan? What's your take on it?


I kill EVERY coyote I see! or try to at least!


Edited by deaddownwind (12/30/13 11:29 AM)

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#3522370 - 12/30/13 12:12 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: deaddownwind]
Nealmeally
8 Point


Registered: 12/20/10
Posts: 2426
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: deaddownwind
 Originally Posted By: KillenTime
I wonder in all of these threads killing predators such as coyotes is never mentioned as part of a QDM plan? What's your take on it?


I kill EVERY coyote I see! or try to at least!


I trap my places for coyotes after season.. Probably start in about 2 weeks. I usually trap until mid May. I can see a difference on one place. Trapped 5 off of it in Feb. and March last season. Haven't seen a yote on it this year. I believe they kill more fawns than most think.
_________________________
Hard work and patience will be rewarded.....sooner or later

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#3522376 - 12/30/13 12:17 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Nealmeally]
Frank G
8 Point


Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 1409
Loc: Hardin Co, TN Pickwick Lake

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If a Yotie walks by me ............. the lead will fly or arrow as the case may be.
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#3522424 - 12/30/13 12:52 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Frank G]
volunteer1
4 Point


Registered: 10/02/12
Posts: 352
Loc: east tn

Offline
Always shoot them.Matter of fact shot at one this morning on the move. Unfortuantly I did not connect.
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#3522487 - 12/30/13 01:29 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: volunteer1]
KillenTime
4 Point


Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 257
Loc: West Tn.

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I think the Coyotes should be on everybody's mind trying to do qdm. Improving your herd takes a lot of thought and other things besides Which deer you shoot. Don't get me wrong we practice the mature bucks or deer you want to mount way, but it takes a much bigger plan than just that.
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#3522610 - 12/30/13 02:51 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: KillenTime]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I would say we practice QDM pretty well on my place, but we don't specifically target coyotes. That's not to say trapping/killing coyotes doesn't have benefit (it can), but I wouldn't say coyote management is a necessary or even critical part of QDM.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3522687 - 12/30/13 03:53 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
KillenTime
4 Point


Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 257
Loc: West Tn.

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Thanks BSK for your advice, I'm probably wrong but I have just always thought the less amount of predators the better off you would be.
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#3522688 - 12/30/13 03:55 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
KillenTime
4 Point


Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 257
Loc: West Tn.

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Thanks BSK for your advice, I'm probably wrong but I have just always thought the less amount of predators the better off you would be.
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#3522732 - 12/30/13 04:41 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: KillenTime]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: KillenTime
Thanks BSK for your advice, I'm probably wrong but I have just always thought the less amount of predators the better off you would be.


Does that include human predators?

QDM is about producing and maintaining a healthy deer population. Predators are a part of that world. I find it a tad disingenuous to kill predators so that human predators can kill more deer. What's the difference between deer populations being maintained by two-legged or four-legged predator?
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3522959 - 12/30/13 07:09 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
KillenTime
4 Point


Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 257
Loc: West Tn.

Offline
makes sense BSK, that's why I like to get different opinions on things! Guess that's why your the "Chuck Norris" of the deer world right? Always like to here your take on subjects, Thanks
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#3523140 - 12/30/13 08:20 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: KillenTime]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12924
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

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I know that we started trapping coyotes this last winter and for once we are seeing fawn survival this year.i think it makes a big difference
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#3523791 - 12/31/13 09:53 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
I know that we started trapping coyotes this last winter and for once we are seeing fawn survival this year.i think it makes a big difference


It certainly can improve fawn recruitment.

But much depends on how well you can accomplish specific QDM goals, such as maintaining proper deer densities through antlerless harvests. In some areas, low fawn production due to coyote predation is actually a God-send, as the hunters aren't able or aren't willing to kill enough does.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3523952 - 12/31/13 11:19 AM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: BSK]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12924
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
I know that we started trapping coyotes this last winter and for once we are seeing fawn survival this year.i think it makes a big difference


It certainly can improve fawn recruitment.

But much depends on how well you can accomplish specific QDM goals, such as maintaining proper deer densities through antlerless harvests. In some areas, low fawn production due to coyote predation is actually a God-send, as the hunters aren't able or aren't willing to kill enough does.
very true

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#3524018 - 12/31/13 12:00 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
Nealmeally
8 Point


Registered: 12/20/10
Posts: 2426
Loc: TN

Offline
I'm very big in deer management and have been for several years on several pieces of property. As far as coyote control goes, I just like trapping em. And it gives me a great way to scout the first 2-3 months after season. Mainly cause I go into areas that I didn't during season. And I do think too many coyotes on a farm has an impact on deer activity and herd in the long run.
_________________________
Hard work and patience will be rewarded.....sooner or later

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#3524052 - 12/31/13 12:20 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: Nealmeally]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Nealmeally
And I do think too many coyotes on a farm has an impact on deer activity and herd in the long run.


Sure it does. But since high coyote populations exist across TN, where would deer go to get away from them? And as for lower fawn production, unless maintaining a stable deer population is a real problem (too few fawns surviving to adulthood to keep the adult population stable), coyotes only lessen the need to remove a large number of adult deer each year.

And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting coyote removal doesn't produce benefits. It ABSOLUTELY can. However, I wouldn't consider it a NECESSARY part of a QDM program. We've got a HUGE coyote population in my area, and they take enough fawns that we've backed way off on our annual doe harvests. However, we still have a healthy deer population (because we greatly reduced our doe harvests) and plenty of mature bucks in the area. And we haven't shot or trapped a coyote in years.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3524438 - 12/31/13 04:26 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: deaddownwind]
rubicon
Spike


Registered: 12/30/13
Posts: 29
Loc: tn

Offline
qdm does work but its awhole lot easier when you sit in shooting houses and you have time to look them over good in a field. when all those guys hunted in the mountain they killed lots of 2.5 year olds
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#3524690 - 12/31/13 07:02 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: rubicon]
volunteer1
4 Point


Registered: 10/02/12
Posts: 352
Loc: east tn

Offline
Rubicon??
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#3524944 - 12/31/13 09:47 PM Re: QDM paying off big time! [Re: rubicon]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 740
Loc: tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: rubicon
qdm does work but its awhole lot easier when you sit in shooting houses and you have time to look them over good in a field. when all those guys hunted in the mountain they killed lots of 2.5 year olds

Very very true!
_________________________
"pants on the floor!"

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