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#345778 - 08/16/07 10:37 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: Wes Parrish]
TOW
10 Point


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 4196
Loc: Back 40

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Let me rephrase that...

Well, after that .. are you guys still going to feed "your deer and turkeys" POISON ??
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#345781 - 08/16/07 10:40 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: Winchester]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 18645
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Winchester
 Quote:
---- and there will be absolutely no evidence to show they died ---- no bones, no nothing.
. . . . would you explain your above statement. Does the deer fairy suck these aflotoxin deer up at death and take care of the carcass??? LOL
Actually, Winchester, it almost seems that way. Should you ever stumble across a just died fawn, leave the site untouched, then return in a few days and see if you can find any evidence that was a dead fawn there a few days earlier.

 Originally Posted By: BSK
When it comes to young deer, especially fawns, they can die in extraordinary numbers, yet their bodies are so small and the skeletons so under-developed that they rot away and are consumed so completely be scavengers that rarely will anyone find a dead fawn carcass.
. . . . . half of all fawns born die before hunting season every year. In all your years of hunting/scouting how many dead fawns have you found?
. . . . .
Deer can die in amazing numbers and no one will notice. Scavengers are amazingly effecient at cleaning up Nature's excess.


Let me share another high-risk factor associated with feeding deer.

Predators such as bobcats and coyotes can quickly pick up on the fact that feeding stations are an excellent ambush place to kill birds, raccoons, and young deer. Button bucks are particularly susceptible to being taken by predators (more than female fawns), and by using a feeder, you're increasing the odds of loss to predators, most particularly on your button bucks.

For you more logically-thinking readers, consider this hypothetical scenario.

Your trail cam pics document 10 fawns showing up in/around a feeding station during July. Five of them (half) are male "button" bucks. These five young males represent much of the potential bucks you could have for harvest in the coming years.

Let's say one of them just gets sick and dies, and it had nothing to do with your feeder. Another gets caught and killed by your own dog (but you never know what happened). Now you're down to 3 male fawns --- close to what would be surviving from 5 in most situations WITHOUT any supplemental feeding stations.

But let's just say because of your feeding station, one of your 3 male fawns gets killed by a bobcat who's figured out there are lots of birds and animals coming and going from this one spot. When you lose 1 of 3, you've lost a third of what you had. The fact that you never find out doesn't negate your real loss. This risk factor alone is enough to make me not want to feed anything, much less corn.

But then, how many of you believe you have as many as 10 total fawns/momma does within a home range utilizing your feeder? Should you have only 2 button bucks, and a bobcat gets one near the feeder, maybe you've caused a 50% greater loss simply because you ignored the risks? I guess some will just say what you don't know won't hurt you.

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#345802 - 08/16/07 10:52 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BSK]
Greg .
aPoStROpHe PolIcE
16 Point


Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 11107
Loc: NC Piedmonts

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Does anybody know if the "reject corn" ends up in NC as well?
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#345809 - 08/16/07 10:53 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: TOW]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: TOW
Well, after that .. are you guys still going to feed "your deer and turkeys"??


TOW,

People will do whatever they feel gives themselves some sort of easy advantage, no matter what the consequences. I've learned that the hard way. I can present solid scientific data until the cows come home and some pepole wil still do whatever their logic tells them will help even when its been proven to not help and even to be dangerous. That's just human Nature.

Reminds me a lot of the early days of QDM. I can't tell you the resistance I ran into when these ideas were new. I was called every name in the book and my data was called "voodoo science." Thankfully, that battle is long over in the South.
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#345811 - 08/16/07 10:56 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: Greg .]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Greg .
Does anybody know if the "reject corn" ends up in NC as well?


I don't know the laws in NC. But I can tell you that research by the Southeast Wildlife Disease Study Group found that half of all bait/feeder sites tested in NC contained dangerous levels of aflatoxin.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#345818 - 08/16/07 11:07 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BSK]
Greg .
aPoStROpHe PolIcE
16 Point


Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 11107
Loc: NC Piedmonts

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Thanks, Bryan. Above I read

"Studies done in NC found that half of all bait/feeder sites tested showed levels of aflatoxin contamination high enough to cause significant poisoning of wildlife. The Southeast Wildlife Disease Study Group is finding new and unknown diseases appearing in areas where feeding/baiting is legal, but those diseases are not being seen where feeding/baiting is illegal."

I was wondering if it was determined if it came in on the corn, or was just naturally around.

In any case, it seems it is a bad idea. Try telling that to the folks in NC, though. In NC, feeding wildlife is legal as is baiting deer. Most folks use corn ... and from what I've read, some LITERALLY put out tons of it.
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Abandon all rational and unbiased thought. Just blame Boooosh.
lIbeRaLs LIE ... lazy lIbeRaLs repeat LIES.
: http://obamaclock.org/

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#345847 - 08/16/07 11:35 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: Greg .]
Darkthirty II
6 Point


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 534

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I read where someone was not worried about a-tox in the field with standing corn. It still has it, there is no difference. Everyone here probally already knows that I am not too concerned with baiting, or killing off the herd.
WIth that said, if your interested in seeing how much aflatoxins are in the corn you are feeding, here is what you do:
Take a cup of corn and put into a blender and grind the corn for a few seconds.
Put ground corn under a black light, and the aflatoxins will sparkle or glow with a greenish color.
This is what we used when getting in fresh corn from farmers when I worked for the chicken company's. If we did see a-tox in the blacklight, then we did the scientific method to break it down into ppm. A small amount was ok (can't remember the exact ppm's), but if was more than that, then we rejected the load.

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#346044 - 08/16/07 01:35 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: Darkthirty II]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Greg,

It was on the corn being used.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#346051 - 08/16/07 01:39 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BSK]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64229
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Very interesting Darkthirty II.

Amount would have had to be very low for chickens. Birds are the most sucseptible to a-tox.

I would worry a little about standing corn, but considering it hasn't matured and dried until the cooler drier air of fall, the risk is reduced considerably. A-tox is at its worst in hot, wet and/or humid weather.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#346190 - 08/16/07 02:42 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BSK]
kholmes
4 Point


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 280
Loc: Nashville

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Should we be concerned with corn planted as a food plot and left standing?
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