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#345407 - 08/16/07 07:55 AM NATIVE VEGITATION.
89montero
10 Point


Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 3900
Loc: ParisTN Henry Co. TN /Roswell ...

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How much can native vegetation be improved by liming and fertilizing?

And is this or can this be better then planting plots?

Native vegetation always comes up no matter what the weather. I know most of it is lower in protein then most food plot plantings.

But if we fertilize it and lime it can we improve it?

I see often time deer eating native vegetation in or near food plots.


Edited by 89montero (08/16/07 07:58 AM)
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#345429 - 08/16/07 08:03 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: 89montero]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
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Yes you can improve it, and when food plots arent an option fertilizing the existing (weeds) can help quite a bit!
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#345465 - 08/16/07 08:14 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: Winchester]
89montero
10 Point


Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 3900
Loc: ParisTN Henry Co. TN /Roswell ...

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If I don't get a new tractor real soon thats my only option.

Edited by 89montero (08/16/07 08:14 AM)
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#345468 - 08/16/07 08:15 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: 89montero]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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89montero,

I often recommend landowners lime, fertilize and disk sections of old overgrown pasture just as if it were a food plot. The native vegitation will respond to the lime and fertilizer just like an agricultural plant would. I've even seen deer specifically feed on patches of honeysuckle that were limed compared to other nearby patches that weren't limed.

Actually, some native vegetation, especially annual broadleaf weeds, can be just as if not more nutritious and digestible than the best agricultural plants. Remember, deer are a weed-eating species. When available, weeds comprise the majority of their diet. In addition, weeds are much more drought tolerant than agricultural crops. My food plots are all completely dead from the drought, but the ragweed and polk growing at the edges of the plot are doing just fine.

In a study done at Auburn quite a few years ago, where they used observers in high towers to watch and record which agricultural plants (food plot plants) deer were eating most frequently, they found that the deer--with free-choice to eat from multiple food plots--spent the majority of their time feeding on the limed and fertilized weeds growing around the edges of the plots instead of on the plants in the plots themselves

I have several thin-soiled ridge-top plots that I specifically manage for growth into weeds in the summer time. These plots will see much more food production and usage by deer in the summer than food plots. I highly recommend that every property have non-forested areas that are used specifically for weed production in summer. They can be disked, limed and fertilized in spring and then just left to grow up naturally over the summer. These areas can even be disked in fall and used as a cereal grain food plots for hunting season (as all of the annual weeds will die with the first frost anyways).
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#345472 - 08/16/07 08:18 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: BSK]
89montero
10 Point


Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 3900
Loc: ParisTN Henry Co. TN /Roswell ...

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Thanks for the info guys...
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#345474 - 08/16/07 08:19 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: BSK]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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If it weren't for the weed/plant production in some of my small ridge-top plots and the amazing production of forage in two power-line right-of-ways that cross my property, the deer on my place would be in a world of hurt. In my agricultural food plots there is not a sprig of anything green. The are completely dead. Yet the power-line right-of-ways are chest-high in exceptional deer forage, including honeysuckle, desmodium, aster, polk and ragweed. The native plants in those power-line right-of-ways are doing exceptionally well even in this severe drought.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#345524 - 08/16/07 08:40 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: BSK]
89montero
10 Point


Registered: 12/26/06
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Loc: ParisTN Henry Co. TN /Roswell ...

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Weeds are natural ag plantings and lawns are not. And anything thats natural is going to succeed. I guess?
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#345787 - 08/16/07 10:44 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: 89montero]
BSK
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Native weeds are naturally drought adapted. Agricultural crops are not. They have been selectively bred for maximum growth and/or seed production in optimum conditions, not terrible conditions.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#346715 - 08/16/07 06:53 PM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: BSK]
156p&y
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Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4194
Loc: Franklin Tn

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
The native plants in those power-line right-of-ways are doing exceptionally well even in this severe drought.


So was ours until about two days ago. I went to just look and see what kind of damage the deer had done to them recently. It wasn't extremely noticeable but I did notice all the native weeds where starting to wilt. If they die off, then what do I do to help the herd or what will the deer eat?
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#347636 - 08/17/07 07:07 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: 156p&y]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Deer will be shifting more and more towards food sources in the lowest, wettest area.

Nothing else you can do buy pray for rain.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#347823 - 08/17/07 08:53 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: 89montero]
Gravey
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 Originally Posted By: 89montero
If I don't get a new tractor real soon thats my only option.

Keeping my mouth shut. \:D
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#348021 - 08/17/07 09:52 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: Gravey]
89montero
10 Point


Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 3900
Loc: ParisTN Henry Co. TN /Roswell ...

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I know you still have one.. lol
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#348411 - 08/17/07 11:31 AM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: BSK]
89montero
10 Point


Registered: 12/26/06
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Loc: ParisTN Henry Co. TN /Roswell ...

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So why do we plant stuff???

We must really perplex God: he made us a perfect world and we have to change it. Imagine the conversation The Creator might have had with St. Francis on the subject of lawns.

GOD: Frank, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there on the planet? What happened to the dandelions, violets, thistles, and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect, no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought, and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long-lasting blossoms attracts butterflies, honeybees, and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now. But all I see are these green rectangles.

ST. FRANCIS: It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers "weeds" and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.

GOD: Grass? But it's so boring. It's not colorful. It doesn't attract butterflies, birds, and bees, only grubs and sodworms. It's sensitive to temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any other plant that crops up in the lawn.

GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it sometimes twice a week.

GOD: They cut it? Do they then bail it like hay?

ST. FRANCIS: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.

GOD: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?

ST. FRANCIS: No, Sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.

GOD: Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?

ST. FRANCIS: Yes, Sir.

GOD: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.

ST. FRANCIS: You aren't going to believe this, Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.

GOD: What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It's a natural circle of life.

ST. FRANCIS: You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away.

GOD: No. What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter and to keep the soil moist and loose?

ST. FRANCIS: After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy something which they call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves.

GOD: And where do they get this mulch?

ST. FRANCIS: They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.

GOD: Enough. I don't want to think about this anymore. St. Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for us tonight?

ST. CATHERINE: Dumb and Dumber, Lord. It's a real stupid movie about ...

GOD: Never mind, I think I just heard the whole story from St. Francis.
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#348761 - 08/17/07 01:32 PM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: 89montero]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6318
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Now that there's funny!
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#349232 - 08/17/07 04:27 PM Re: NATIVE VEGITATION. [Re: BSK]
156p&y
10 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4194
Loc: Franklin Tn

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Deer will be shifting more and more towards food sources in the lowest, wettest area.


I started to notice that trend about 2 weeks ago around here.
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