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#3445928 - 11/10/13 08:13 PM Muzzle loader?
JSPAL270
6 Point


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 822
Loc: BLOUNT CO

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I am not getting complete pass thru shots with my muzzle loader. I have been blaming the power belt ammo I was shooting. So I switched to hornady 245gr hollow pts pushed by 100gr pyrodex pellets and a 209 mag primer. I shot a deer this evening at 50yd in the shoulder found the bullet while field dressing. I took out both lungs he only went a few yards. If it would have been a less than perfect shot I don't think I would have been able to trail it.
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#3445939 - 11/10/13 08:16 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: JSPAL270]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2673
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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I remedied this by shooting a heavier bullet.
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#3445991 - 11/10/13 08:32 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: BlountArrow]
Killing time
4 Point


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 281
Loc: West Tennesse

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I always had complete pass thru's until i switched to TC Shockwaves. I will be purchasing some Barnes bullets soon.
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#3445994 - 11/10/13 08:34 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: BlountArrow]
fredfred
8 Point


Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 1832
Loc: crossville, tn

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Heavier bullet, more powder or a bullet that doesn't expand so much. if the bullet stops in a animal it has expended every last ounce of energy it could into it. A pass threw wastes the energy, but 2 holes gotta be better than one.
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#3446029 - 11/10/13 08:52 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: JSPAL270]
Boone 58
16 Point


Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 15012
Loc: Food Plot

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I quit power belts for this reason and use the hornady FPB 350 grains.....most of the time I get a pass thru and they really tear up the bone. I think heavier bullets are the way to go with MZ's....just my opinion.
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#3446139 - 11/10/13 09:46 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Boone 58]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 9683
Loc: Franklin, TN

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Powerbelts were your first issue but I wouldn't judge the new bullet on a shoulder shot. A shoulder shot with a muzzleloader is not a guarantee pass through on a direct shoulder hit.

Edited by UTGrad (11/10/13 09:47 PM)

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#3446142 - 11/10/13 09:49 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: UTGrad]
Deer Assassin
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 87596
Loc: Kingston Springs

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get a lead hp 405 powerbelt

the only powerbelt worth a crap


otherwise
get a hndy sst 300 gn

or 350 or 300 fpb
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Spending money I dont have

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#3446166 - 11/10/13 10:26 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Deer Assassin]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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Buy some Barnes Expanders and you can get Stevie Wonder to do your blood trailing.
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#3446175 - 11/10/13 10:38 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Spurhunter]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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I always had complete pass thru's with my big 54 caliber Mini-ball bullets with 80 grains of FF Black powder .I never found any 44 caliber hollow point even that would not pass thru a deer .
QUOTE The Bullet That Changed History
The Bullet That Changed History
QUOTE [ It was late afternoon on Aug. 30, 1862, the concluding day of the Second Battle of Bull Run, and the largest simultaneous massed assault of the Civil War was about to be unleashed. The Confederate general James Longstreet’s corps was in position on the left flank of the Union general John Pope’s unsuspecting Army of Virginia, and when the signal was given 25,000 Rebels surged forward, catching the surprised Federals in an immense “hammer on anvil” movement.

Leading the charge was John Bell Hood’s Texas Brigade, a force of roughly 2,500 men that included Pvt. William Fletcher, Company F, 5th Texas Infantry. When Fletcher and his fellow Texans had advanced to within 150 yards, a line of Union soldiers stood and fired, then turned to run, precipitating a retreat that would nearly result in Pope’s annihilation.

The Federals’ parting volley was mostly ineffective, but one bullet struck Private Fletcher in the stomach, knocking him to the ground and momentarily rendering him unconscious. When he came to, he saw the “long and ugly wound” and guessed that his bowels had been pierced. Fletcher sat up and actually faced into the raging battle, hoping he “might be so fortunate as to get a dead shot” that would “put an end to his existence.”

Private Fletcher had good reason to wish for a mercy shot. Earlier battles had taught veterans like him that serious gunshot wounds to the head, chest and abdomen were most often fatal. But while the first two were very likely to kill quickly, abdominal wounds condemned their victims to agonizingly slow deaths. Fletcher cursed his fate but resigned himself to it. ] http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/the-bullet-that-changed-history/?_r=0


Edited by Locksley (11/10/13 10:52 PM)
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#3446176 - 11/10/13 10:38 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Spurhunter]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 9683
Loc: Franklin, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Spurhunter
Buy some Barnes Expanders and you can get Stevie Wonder to do your blood trailing.


Yep

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#3447092 - 11/11/13 12:55 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: UTGrad]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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My Derr never ran far . Just a death run if hit in the lungs.
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#3447124 - 11/11/13 01:05 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Locksley]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 736
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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I was talking to the processor I use about this issue. He was surprised that I had a pass-through until I told him it was a short shot. He said they seldom see pass-throughs during ML season. I never knew that.
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#3447126 - 11/11/13 01:06 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Locksley]
Winchester
Non-Typical


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 27793
Loc: TN

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Hornady XTP bullets have performed GREAT for me for many years now!
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#3447154 - 11/11/13 01:27 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Winchester]
Elmer
6 Point


Registered: 09/01/11
Posts: 554
Loc: Ft. Campbell/Montgomery co.

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 Originally Posted By: Winchester
Hornady XTP bullets have performed GREAT for me for many years now!

JUST IMO if you are not using xtps you are at a disadvantage. They are why the phrase bang flop was invented.
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#3447156 - 11/11/13 01:28 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: UTGrad]
huntinkev
8 Point


Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 1536
Loc: East Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: UTGrad
 Originally Posted By: Spurhunter
Buy some Barnes Expanders and you can get Stevie Wonder to do your blood trailing.


Yep


X2 never had an issue with them

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#3447180 - 11/11/13 01:48 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: UTGrad]
Coach
16 Point


Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 11380
Loc: Pall Mall, TN and Dexter, MI

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One thing I learned while figuring out my mz issues...if you are shooting a magnum (my gun is a TC Pro Hunter Magnum) and you shoot Triple 7 pellets you need to use three. If you shoot White Hot you can use two pellets with the same results. Just thought I'd toss that in there...maybe go to three pellets
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#3447185 - 11/11/13 01:51 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Coach]
PalsPal
8 Point


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: TN

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Another vote for XTPs!
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#3447346 - 11/11/13 03:18 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: jlmustain]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
I was talking to the processor I use about this issue. He was surprised that I had a pass-through until I told him it was a short shot. He said they seldom see pass-throughs during ML season. I never knew that.


The reason he seldom sees pass-throughs in muzzleloader is the same reason Powerbelts are the #1 selling ML bullet. A lot of people shoot them. I did too, for years, and most deer dropped in their tracks, but there was never a pass through or blood trail. I knew sooner or later I was going to lose one so I switched to Barnes Expanders. Expanders pass through and leave a heck of a blood trail.

I don't know why you would switch to a hotter load or heavier bullet when switching to a quality, flat shooting bullet will solve the problem and save powder and recoil.
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#3447408 - 11/11/13 03:52 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: huntinkev]
Merrick
Spike


Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 36
Loc: Gibson Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: huntinkev
 Originally Posted By: UTGrad
 Originally Posted By: Spurhunter
Buy some Barnes Expanders and you can get Stevie Wonder to do your blood trailing.


Yep


X2 never had an issue with them


I use the Barnes Spit-Fire T-EZ 250gr. and even with good shot placement but quartering towards I didn't get a pass thru. Bullet lodged under the skin near the opposite side ham. May need to try the Expanders?
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#3447502 - 11/11/13 05:02 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Merrick]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Merrick
 Originally Posted By: huntinkev
 Originally Posted By: UTGrad
 Originally Posted By: Spurhunter
Buy some Barnes Expanders and you can get Stevie Wonder to do your blood trailing.


Yep


X2 never had an issue with them


I use the Barnes Spit-Fire T-EZ 250gr. and even with good shot placement but quartering towards I didn't get a pass thru. Bullet lodged under the skin near the opposite side ham. May need to try the Expanders?


I guess anything can happen on a quartering-to shot. I would try the Spit-Fires on a broadside shot before I switched.

If you don't get a pass thru then I would say it's worth a shot. No pun intended. The Expanders are designed to rose petal into 6 cutting edges.
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#3447611 - 11/11/13 06:03 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Winchester]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10136
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Winchester
Hornady XTP bullets have performed GREAT for me for many years now!


With my Knight and black powder the 240 gr. XTP was my go to bullet. It killed a truck load of deer for me. I NEVER had an issue with one shot with an XTP.
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#3447616 - 11/11/13 06:08 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: scn]
Coach
16 Point


Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 11380
Loc: Pall Mall, TN and Dexter, MI

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SCN...hollow point?
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#3447709 - 11/11/13 06:52 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Spurhunter]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 736
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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Do expanders work with pyrodex pellets? I don't know much about this stuff.
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#3447770 - 11/11/13 07:17 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: jlmustain]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
Do expanders work with pyrodex pellets? I don't know much about this stuff.


Yes sir. I shoot 2 pellets. The expanders are just like any other sabot as far as that goes. Whatever powder/pellets you prefer.
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#3448065 - 11/11/13 09:17 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Spurhunter]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 736
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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Good to know. Thanks. Is it worth re-sighting if I switch?
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#3448132 - 11/11/13 09:44 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: jlmustain]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
Good to know. Thanks. Is it worth re-sighting if I switch?


I can't answer that but I can tell you Deer Assassin is shooting the 195 grain Expanders and he does more tinkering/testing/shooting than most folks. He has killed 2 and his wife killed 1 since Saturday and all 3 were pass throughs. My son's 8 point Saturday was a pass through. They do what they are supposed to do. Pass through and leave incredible blood trails.
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#3448137 - 11/11/13 09:46 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: jlmustain]
darn2ten
8 Point


Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 1169
Loc: lincoln co. tn.

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 Originally Posted By: jlmustain
Good to know. Thanks. Is it worth re-sighting if I switch?
Yes, you will have a different point of impact going from a powerbelt to a Barnes bullet. I've never had a broad side deer shot through the lungs with a Barnes bullet that didn't pass through. I shoot 95 gn of Blackhorn 209 and used to shoot 95 gn of loose FFFg T7, no need for those teeth rattling magnum loads. I do like the Barnes expanders better than their tipped bullets, pure devastation!

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#3448222 - 11/11/13 10:47 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: darn2ten]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 736
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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This is really good info'. Thanks, y'all! I'll be looking more into it all. I've only killed one with a muzzleloader, and he was taken yesterday. I used 250 gr Powerbelt with two pyrodex pellets. I got a pass-through, but, again, it was at 18 yards, so I imagine that if they don't typically pass-through, it was just because he was closer. Although I didn't have a trail, it's not atypical not to have one with a double-lung shot. I may need to make a switch after I run out of the PBs. I hate wasting money. Ha!
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#3448227 - 11/11/13 10:53 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Coach]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10136
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Coach
SCN...hollow point?


Yes, it is a hollow point. They were VERY accurate in my Knights, and it was rare to have a deer run very far. As stated, a lot were bang-flops. And, as an added plus, they were not very expensive bullets.
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#3448395 - 11/12/13 06:36 AM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: scn]
Coach
16 Point


Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 11380
Loc: Pall Mall, TN and Dexter, MI

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 Originally Posted By: scn
 Originally Posted By: Coach
SCN...hollow point?


Yes, it is a hollow point. They were VERY accurate in my Knights, and it was rare to have a deer run very far. As stated, a lot were bang-flops. And, as an added plus, they were not very expensive bullets.


I picked some up to try out in this new TC...they were only $11..
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#3448481 - 11/12/13 07:27 AM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Coach]
WestTn Huntin'man
16 Point


Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 11996
Loc: Benton Co.

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I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth into this.I'm not a expert but have shot a few deer with my M.L.s in the last 30 years or so.
1st most Magnum M.L.s shooting 150 grains are wasting powder. If you are not shooting a M.L. with a longer barrel (28" vs 26") you are wasting powder and not gaining knock down power. More knowledgeable people than me have proven this with chronographs. D.A. on this site, others on many M.L. sites. Several simple tests you can do to prove it to yourself.Shoot at close range at a old sheet or butcher paper or in low light. The longer flash out your barrel is wasted unburnt powder, Or you can shoot thru a chronograph.
A bang flop is a bang flop with or without pass thru. I used to worry about pass thru's not any more. Bonded bullets are designed to pass thru without busting up. Un bonded are designed to break apart and do internal damage. I would rather have internal damage and less wasted meat.I think I've had more bang flops with internal damage.I've had to track more deer with pass thrus and no internal damage. You can spend a lot of money trying different bullets trying for the perfect one. I have \:\) it's fun shooting and experimenting in spring and summer. Honestly IMO once you find a bullet your gun shoots good groups with stick with it. A dead deer is a dead deer.The season is open now not a good time to be playing with different loads and bullets.
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#3448530 - 11/12/13 08:06 AM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
Frank G
8 Point


Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 1409
Loc: Hardin Co, TN Pickwick Lake

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth into this.I'm not a expert but have shot a few deer with my M.L.s in the last 30 years or so.
1st most Magnum M.L.s shooting 150 grains are wasting powder. If you are not shooting a M.L. with a longer barrel (28" vs 26") you are wasting powder and not gaining knock down power. More knowledgeable people than me have proven this with chronographs. D.A. on this site, others on many M.L. sites. Several simple tests you can do to prove it to yourself.Shoot at close range at a old sheet or butcher paper or in low light. The longer flash out your barrel is wasted unburnt powder, Or you can shoot thru a chronograph.
A bang flop is a bang flop with or without pass thru. I used to worry about pass thru's not any more. Bonded bullets are designed to pass thru without busting up. Un bonded are designed to break apart and do internal damage. I would rather have internal damage and less wasted meat.I think I've had more bang flops with internal damage.I've had to track more deer with pass thrus and no internal damage. You can spend a lot of money trying different bullets trying for the perfect one. I have \:\) it's fun shooting and experimenting in spring and summer. Honestly IMO once you find a bullet your gun shoots good groups with stick with it. A dead deer is a dead deer.The season is open now not a good time to be playing with different loads and bullets.


Agree with the 150 vs 100 grain propelent. My CVA works very well and consistent with 100.
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#3448981 - 11/12/13 12:04 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Frank G]
WestTn Huntin'man
16 Point


Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 11996
Loc: Benton Co.

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Loose powder vs pellets is a different story.If you want a little extra kick and not waste powder. You might want to try (2) 50 grain pellets and a 25g.. I used this load in my Remington Genesis at the range to get out to 250 yards. Never shot a deer in M.L. that far out. I use 100grains 777 with the 250 Shock waves unbonded.I find no difference in accuracy with bonded vs un bonded. I have found that the Yellow super glides load and shoot better with a tight bore. The black ones worked fine in my kight. I the yellow seem to load easier in my Remington.It has a 28" barrel and is a bit tighter loading. Took a good while to figure out what the difference was between the 2.
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#3448985 - 11/12/13 12:07 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
WestTn Huntin'man
16 Point


Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 11996
Loc: Benton Co.

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You can check your bore size. If you happened to have one of the vary tight like .497 or .498 the yellow are much easier to load and shoot well if you happened to have a .500 or a .501 then the Black ones work best.
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#3449017 - 11/12/13 12:27 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: huntinkev]
fullstream
8 Point


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1526
Loc: tipton

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 Originally Posted By: huntinkev
 Originally Posted By: UTGrad
 Originally Posted By: Spurhunter
Buy some Barnes Expanders and you can get Stevie Wonder to do your blood trailing.


Yep


X2 never had an issue with them


Agreed only had 1 not pass through and that was a front on shot, found the bullet it mushroomed perfectly after destroying the heart and tearing up 4 ribs

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#3449319 - 11/12/13 03:35 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
1st most Magnum M.L.s shooting 150 grains are wasting powder. If you are not shooting a M.L. with a longer barrel (28" vs 26") you are wasting powder and not gaining knock down power.


Agreed.
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#3449324 - 11/12/13 03:40 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
A bang flop is a bang flop with or without pass thru. I used to worry about pass thru's not any more.


I disagree. A bang flop is a bang flop......until it isn't. Sooner or later a deer is going to run off into a thicket or sage grass field, and with no exit hole and no blood trail you are going to play Hell finding it. I'll take a pass thru and a 40 yard track with blood everywhere over a bang flop and no exit hole every time. Sooner or later I'm going to need that blood trail.
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#3449331 - 11/12/13 03:43 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
I would rather have internal damage and less wasted meat.


How much meat is wasted with a heart or lung shot that passes thru? I would guess a few ounces of rib meat.
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#3449453 - 11/12/13 04:56 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Spurhunter]
WestTn Huntin'man
16 Point


Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 11996
Loc: Benton Co.

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I have had hard tracking with both shoots,and easy tracking with both. One of the thrills of hunting is no 2 kills are OFTEN a like. Each hunt and each shot is a little different . If you pass thru the ribs or behind the shoulder not much difference. I have seen more pass thrus miss the heart and hit one lung and run than a unbonded bullet that breaks up and tears up both lungs and the heart. Maybe Bang and drop like a rock would be a better term than Bang flop get up and run.To each his own as experience or tradition dictate.

Edited by WestTn Huntin'man (11/12/13 04:58 PM)
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#3449548 - 11/12/13 05:43 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: JSPAL270]
Spurhunter
8 Point


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: T County, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
I have seen more pass thrus miss the heart and hit one lung and run than a unbonded bullet that breaks up and tears up both lungs and the heart.


That's a good point. I've never used an unbonded bullet. I have used Powerbelts that stay in one piece and don't pass thru.
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#3449634 - 11/12/13 06:35 PM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: Spurhunter]
JSPAL270
6 Point


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 822
Loc: BLOUNT CO

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I picked up a pack of 300gr Barnes expanders. I probally will stick to the hornady bullets I have for this season. I wish I would have asked about bullets before the season.
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#3456900 - 11/17/13 11:00 AM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: jlmustain]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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I use a 44 magnum Sierra bullet in a sabot mostly when I could find them.
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To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

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#3478169 - 12/01/13 07:19 AM Re: Muzzle loader? [Re: WestTn Huntin'man]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19734
Loc: Antioch TN

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 Originally Posted By: WestTn Huntin'man
I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth into this.I'm not a expert but have shot a few deer with my M.L.s in the last 30 years or so.
1st most Magnum M.L.s shooting 150 grains are wasting powder. If you are not shooting a M.L. with a longer barrel (28" vs 26") you are wasting powder and not gaining knock down power. More knowledgeable people than me have proven this with chronographs. D.A. on this site, others on many M.L. sites. Several simple tests you can do to prove it to yourself.Shoot at close range at a old sheet or butcher paper or in low light. The longer flash out your barrel is wasted unburnt powder, Or you can shoot thru a chronograph.
A bang flop is a bang flop with or without pass thru. I used to worry about pass thru's not any more. Bonded bullets are designed to pass thru without busting up. Un bonded are designed to break apart and do internal damage. I would rather have internal damage and less wasted meat.I think I've had more bang flops with internal damage.I've had to track more deer with pass thrus and no internal damage. You can spend a lot of money trying different bullets trying for the perfect one. I have \:\) it's fun shooting and experimenting in spring and summer. Honestly IMO once you find a bullet your gun shoots good groups with stick with it. A dead deer is a dead deer.The season is open now not a good time to be playing with different loads and bullets.




This is good advice . I use the 50 grain pellets because real black powder is hard to find and I use 30 grains of loose FF Powder ahead of my loads to make sure my pellets go off in my old side lock gun. I have used one of my T/C Hawkens since 1974 so it has served me well over the years . I figure the loose powder also fills up the patent breech area so it works every time.

QUOTE [ Patent Breech Hello, olmontanaboy, The British Whitworth hexagonal bore .451 muzzle loaders used a Patent Breech..As well as the Parker-Hale re-make of same in the early 1980's. These were prized precision arms..a favorite of Confederate snipers. ] QUOTE [ The Nock's or patent breech basically refers to the powder chamber that's cut into the barrel breech for faster ignition. It usually has an integral snail or bolster containing the flash channel that leads from the nipple to the powder chamber. This modification has been widely adopted and improvised upon and used in many modern muzzle loading designs to some extent including the modern CVA's. However drum type guns are differentiated by having a separate drum ignition system screwed into it instead of the integral snail or bolster. See the illustrations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster
Yes, the Lyman GPR has what was once called a "patent" breech, the invention, IIRC, of the great gun maker Henry Nock. There is a sort of elongated hemispherical cut within the breech plug itself that is coaxial with the barrel. The diameter of this feature is about 3/8". There is a small hole that is drilled in the center of the hemisphere, again coaxial with the barrel, that connects with the cross hole in which the touch hole liner is installed. This sort of breeching was long ago found to give better ignition than letting the touch hole directly into the barrel, particularly when the more coarse grades of powder are used.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...highlight=nock
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File Type: jpg E4869904BD694A1889AF52C0099BA987.jpg (45.7 KB, 57 views)
] http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428280
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