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#3432877 - 11/02/13 09:00 PM Not sure exactly what is happening
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 629
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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While helping a friend with his ML, I tried some 40 cal saboted loads in my H&R conversion. I got this load off dougs
1st shot: 200SST, HLBLU sabot, 10/50 4759/4198 2654fps
2nd shot: 195 barnes, HLBLU sabot, 10/50 4759/4198 1925fps
3rd shot: 195 barnes, HLBLU sabot, 10/50 4759/4198 2460fps
4th shot: 200SST, HLBLU sabot, 10/50 4759/4198 2649fps

The first and fourth shots were touching but the second and third totally missed the 3'x3' target and the velocity was all over the place. After firing, all sabots were in good shape. All charges were weighed the evening before. The barnes load easier but still plenty tight. I thought I would try the barnes after DA posted his groups from a handi conversion. I plan to revisit these loads after the season is over.
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#3432892 - 11/02/13 09:15 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: SCAT]
fullstream
8 Point


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1503
Loc: tipton

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I'm in the same boat with ya, gonna be shooting sst's in my new gun. The barnes shoot extremely well in my apex & stalker...go figure
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#3432964 - 11/02/13 10:18 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: fullstream]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3491
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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If you didn't hit a 3x3 board you either had sabot failure (you said you didn't), or the bullet is tumbling for some reason.

You can melt the outside layer of a sabot basically making it fail to obturate correctly, but not blow it. It will look very close to normal. Usually heat and wait time related.

Only other thing could be that the Barnes is not tight enough over the load and you are losing pressure and getting inconsistent ignition. Give 'em a light knurl.

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#3433026 - 11/02/13 11:14 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 629
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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They were all knurled. Comparing pressure traces between a load similar to what DA used and the load I used, I noticed that DA's load is under 30K psi and mine is over 30k psi.

The SST, being a jacketed bullet, must obturate and seal the charge better than the all copper barnes.

I suspect that a lighter load, such as DA's load may work better in this gun too. I'll play with it next year.
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#3433596 - 11/03/13 12:03 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: SCAT]
Deer Assassin
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Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 87043
Loc: Kingston Springs

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the barrel is way short in an handi 22 before conversion i assume 20 after

as far as duplex the load i have never done it nor really see the need

i just used straight h4198

mine like the barnes way better that the sst

what kills me is you fps varience between shots with barnes load
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#3434288 - 11/03/13 07:45 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: Deer Assassin]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 345
Loc: USA Indiana

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Sometime back I ran across a batch of 195s that measured from .398-.400. I mic them all now.
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#3435285 - 11/04/13 10:42 AM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: Tar12]
ewc
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Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2258
Loc: Knoxville

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I have never shot a .45, however, a pretty standard load for a .45 is 60-62 H-4198.

I don't think you need to duplex. Looking at the load database, your speeds for 1 and 4 are the same as straight loads of 60-62 gr H-4198.

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#3435622 - 11/04/13 02:08 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: ewc]
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 629
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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I still don't fully trust straight IMR4198. I haven't tried the 60-62gr 4198 but suspect that EWC is right about the velocity. My SS Ultrahunter barrel is 2 inches longer than the one on DA's gun which would explain the increased velocity. I plan to shoot it straight after the season is over and hopefully gain some trust in it. For this season, no more than it will be used (Fullstreams' old stainless savage will be the one this year), I will use the duplex load and the 200 SST's.

I believe the problem with the barnes is a bullet/sabot fit issue. They fit snug but not as tight as the SST's. They also don't obturate like the SST does.
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She told me if I go hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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#3435758 - 11/04/13 03:34 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: SCAT]
Rubberduck270
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2804
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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For the 195 Barnes to be dang near $1 a piece, I wasn't impressed with their quality. I shot about 15 of them before I swapped to 200 gr. SST's and haven't looked back.

The Barnes Original hasn't given me any problems in my Savage but every once in a while I'll notice one that's a little tighter or looser fitting.
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#3435854 - 11/04/13 04:29 PM Re: Not sure exactly what is happening [Re: Rubberduck270]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3491
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Rubberduck270
For the 195 Barnes to be dang near $1 a piece, I wasn't impressed with their quality. I shot about 15 of them before I swapped to 200 gr. SST's and haven't looked back.

The Barnes Original hasn't given me any problems in my Savage but every once in a while I'll notice one that's a little tighter or looser fitting.


The Barnes 195 has always been undersized compared to the SST. Where the Barnes really shines is on shots that are not perfect or shots that have to go through bones or a lot of animal to get through to the vitals. I shot a doe last year with the 195 facing me at 134 yards. The bullet exited the left ham, it is a tough bullet, I have never recovered one in an animal. If you can get it to shoot (with a little tinkering most guns will) it is the hunting bullet to use.

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