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#3414786 - 10/23/13 04:57 AM Must Watch! Trail cam survey
DROPTINE33
4 Point


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 387
Loc: Falling Water, TN

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This is a very interesting trail cam study on what we are missing with still picture trail cameras. Position of camera is key. Location of camera plays a big roll as well. Hope you enjoy!

Click on link below for video.
http://youtu.be/XVQUSR5BdIk
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#3414888 - 10/23/13 07:11 AM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: DROPTINE33]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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That link has been posted many times, and I've posted my thoughts on it many times. In short, I disagree with many of their points, especially if you use black-flash cams instead of the visible flash cams the video-makers use.

Placing cameras in video mode reduces image quality dramatically.

Placing cameras high and pointing them down WILL reduce the frequency of deer reacting to the camera, but it greatly limits the trigger area of the camera (fine for "spot on the ground" sites but a poor set-up for "area" sites).
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3414927 - 10/23/13 07:44 AM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: BSK]
DROPTINE33
4 Point


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 387
Loc: Falling Water, TN

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Apoligies, didnt mean to dig up a dead horse. First time i have seen this video. Just thought they made some interesting points.
_________________________
"Its common since to take a method and try it. If it fails admit it frankly and try another.
But above all try something."
Franklin D. Roosevelt

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#3415720 - 10/23/13 04:03 PM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: DROPTINE33]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3522
Loc: Franklin County

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Quick question. When a manufacturer say a camera has "Black flash" are they talking about infrared or are they different?
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#3415917 - 10/23/13 06:35 PM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: Hunter 257W]
BSK
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
Quick question. When a manufacturer say a camera has "Black flash" are they talking about infrared or are they different?


So called "infra-red" (or IR) cams use some infra-red light to illuminate at night, but most of the illumination is actually achieved using light in the visible red spectrum (visible to us and deer). That's why these cameras are also called "red-glow" cams, because their flash is visible as a dull red glow for a second or two. Red-glow flash can really scare the crap out of deer, especially in video mode (called "flash spook"). However, some deer do not display noticeable fright at the flash, but avoid the camera in the future (called "camera avoidance").

However, "black-flash" is SUPPOSED to be completely invisible to us and deer. Most black-flash cams achieve this flash invisibility. However, a few manufacturers black-flash cams are still visible to most people and most deer. Great strides have been made in true black-flash technology of late, hence just a few brands are still erroneously pushing visible flash cams are black-flash.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3415972 - 10/23/13 07:00 PM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: BSK]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
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Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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As mentioned, black flash is different than "red flash". If I could start over, I would have all black flash and white flash (regular picture with a flash). White flash for distance and black flash where the deer dont have a clue. Red flash seems to spook deer, especially older deer, more than any other camera flash out there, imo
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#3416567 - 10/24/13 07:07 AM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: JCDEERMAN]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
If I could start over, I would have all black flash and white flash (regular picture with a flash). White flash for distance and black flash where the deer dont have a clue.


You don't need white flash for distance anymore. Just get some black-flash flash extenders. They will shoot black light WAY out there, and for only $80.

This is a pick from a black-flash cam with flash extender. The tree-line in the background is 135 feet away:


_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3416659 - 10/24/13 08:13 AM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3522
Loc: Franklin County

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Thanks guys. Both my current cameras are IR. Guess I need to do some camera shopping or stop trying to film over scrapes. Don't want to spook a buck out of the area because of my curiosity to see what is making the scrape.

The IR cameras should still be good for established mineral licks I would think?

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#3416675 - 10/24/13 08:19 AM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: Hunter 257W]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
The IR cameras should still be good for established mineral licks I would think?


Deer will still tend to shy away from IR cams at salt licks, but the attractant does help. From my comparative data, older bucks come less often and stay less time at salt licks covered with IR cams versus black-flash, and by a HUGE margin.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3416745 - 10/24/13 08:54 AM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: BSK]
Hollar Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 2296
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
The IR cameras should still be good for established mineral licks I would think?


Deer will still tend to shy away from IR cams at salt licks, but the attractant does help. From my comparative data, older bucks come less often and stay less time at salt licks covered with IR cams versus black-flash, and by a HUGE margin.


I've been running IR cameras for several years and this year I went to all Moultrie black flash which I know still shows some glow but very very little. In the past several years of having IR cameras I've never had a deer bed in front of it at least not for more than one pic than they were spooked. Just these few months that I've been running moultrie black flash cameras I've had several occasions with deer bedded in the pic sometimes for over an hour so I know now first hand ther's a HUGE difference and I am looking forward to going to all true black flash when the right model/price comes out...
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#3417084 - 10/24/13 12:22 PM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3522
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
The IR cameras should still be good for established mineral licks I would think?


Deer will still tend to shy away from IR cams at salt licks, but the attractant does help. From my comparative data, older bucks come less often and stay less time at salt licks covered with IR cams versus black-flash, and by a HUGE margin.


Well, my observations sure align with what you are saying here BSK, as I seem to rarely get an older buck even at my established mineral sites. In the past it seemed like I got somewhat more older bucks with my old visible flash 35mm film cameras but never a lot by any means. And they rarely seemed to return more than maybe once after getting photographed.

Darn it, I hate spending money on better cameras that might get stolen though.........:(


Edited by Hunter 257W (10/24/13 12:23 PM)
Edit Reason: clarify

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#3417328 - 10/24/13 02:35 PM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: Hunter 257W]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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I feel for you Hunter 257W. I don't know what I would do if there were high odds of my cameras "disappearing."
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3424130 - 10/28/13 02:36 PM Re: Must Watch! Trail cam survey [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3522
Loc: Franklin County

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Well, to be honest I don't know what the odds are but I did have one theft a few years back that got a camera, ladder stand and homemade feeder all in one fell swoop. That one left me a little hesitant to trust. \:\) I think we have things under better control now as far as strangers coming and going.

After reading here about the IR vs. blackflash cameras, I decided to take down all my cameras Saturday for the rest of hunting season. I see no point in risking spooking a mature buck off the place. I'll probably move forward with trying to mount my IR cameras high enough above the deers vision to work over mineral sights and watch sales for the cheaper black flash cameras for trails/scrapes next year.

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