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#3412586 - 10/21/13 07:07 PM Shot my Savage again today.
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
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After remounting my scope. And with a hand full of different components. I took off to the range this morning. Here is where I stand
Barnes 250gr expander red crushed rib 42gr n110 and fed 209 primer. This load was off the chart bad. After 1 shot it was very very hard to load. Next was the same load as the first only with a Barnes 250gr TEZ bullet this load shot equally as bad as the first.
Next 2 loads were the same as the first two only used MMP black sabot. These were probably 6 inch groups. Guess my gun just does not like Barnes bullets. BUMMER.
Last load was the 250gr xtp black mmp and 42gr n110 with the federal primer. Probably shot 1 1/2 in group at 80 yards. I have shot this load last week and it shot ok. Only difference is the federal primer which seemed to improve it quite a bit. So I guess that will be my load to hunt with. I really wanted to hunt with a Barnes bullet but of well.
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#3412598 - 10/21/13 07:14 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: WGK]
fullstream
8 Point


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1511
Loc: tipton

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I had incredible accuracy with the 300exp with the sabot that came with them (mmp's) they loaded a little tight but were sub moa. I had multiple kills over 200yds & 2 over 250. They flat out layer the smack down as well as most wert DRT.
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#3412607 - 10/21/13 07:16 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: WGK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19342
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: WGK
I really wanted to hunt with a Barnes bullet . . . .

Same here, but . . . . . similar experiences.

When you can, I would recommend you try the 300 gr bullets ---- I've had better results with 300 gr bullets in the Savage.

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#3412646 - 10/21/13 07:27 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Wes Parrish]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2899
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: WGK
I really wanted to hunt with a Barnes bullet . . . .

Same here, but . . . . . similar experiences.

When you can, I would recommend you try the 300 gr bullets ---- I've had better results with 300 gr bullets in the Savage.


What he said
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#3412848 - 10/21/13 08:45 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Rockhound]
WGK
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I think to shoot a 300 gr bullet I will need a different powder. And it is nearly impossible to find powder in my neck of the woods. And I am not paying a 25.00 dollar Has-mat fee to buy 1 pound of powder. But thanks for the advice I will see what I can find.
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William G Kollock

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#3412881 - 10/21/13 08:56 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: WGK]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2899
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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My savage book lists all the recommended powders with 250 or 300 gr bullets I'm pretty sure

4759
5744
N110
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#3412890 - 10/21/13 09:01 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Rockhound]
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
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I will look at my book when I get home tonight.
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William G Kollock

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#3413128 - 10/22/13 03:36 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: WGK]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 11815
Loc: east tn

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I picked the N110 because it had the highest vel & several different loads listed by savage , I will shoot it with 240g & 300g this weekend & see which my rifle likes the best,I paid the hazmat for the N110 but wont again. Seen some loads listing lilgun reloader 7 ect
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#3413244 - 10/22/13 07:24 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: mike243]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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Forget the Lilgun. Bad choice.

I think you just have a sabot/bullet issue. Not a powder issue. N110 is some good stuff.

I've got some 4759 if you'd like to try it, but the 110 is just as good.

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#3413294 - 10/22/13 08:01 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
EastTNHunter
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/10
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Sportsman's Warehouse in Chatt has had 5744 in stock for weeks at around $28/lb
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#3413339 - 10/22/13 08:37 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: EastTNHunter]
WGK
WILD BILL
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Thanks for the info on the powder ETH. I may be able to get that picked up. And I agree with you ewc I too think that is my problem. I think if i backed off my powder charge it would probably shoot better. But for not I will hunt with what I have.
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William G Kollock

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#3413362 - 10/22/13 08:53 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19342
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: ewc
Forget the Lilgun. Bad choice.

Am just curious as to why this is a bad choice?
(Was considering the Reloader 7 because it's available.)

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#3413373 - 10/22/13 09:01 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Wes Parrish]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3496
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: ewc
Forget the Lilgun. Bad choice.

Am just curious as to why this is a bad choice?
(Was considering the Reloader 7 because it's available.)


I have used Reloader7 in .45s for a H4198 stand in, it is a good choice. I have never used it in the 50cal.

Lil'gun is a very hot powder, I haven't read much about using it for muzzleloaders. Maybe they are using it as a booster for a duplex load?

.

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#3413383 - 10/22/13 09:09 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
Roost 1
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Registered: 07/24/11
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Loc: KY

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Nothing wrong with Reloader 7....
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#3413414 - 10/22/13 09:33 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Roost 1]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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We used to shoot lilgun years ago. It worked really well at speeds unheard of back then 2,600-2,800 fps with a 250. Problem was we had to keep trying to reinforce the sabot, because sabot kept blowing (hint #1 there was a problem) and vent liners were eroded in as few as 4 shots (my personal experience and hint #2 something was wrong).

When RB (or maybe it was someone else) finally pressure tested what we had been shooting it was sobering. I believe we were in the mid-60's pressure-wise. Roughly twice the pressure we shoot today.

We all quit cold turkey.

Do a search for lilgun and savage 10ml2.

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#3413437 - 10/22/13 09:43 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3496
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: ewc
We used to shoot lilgun years ago. It worked really well at speeds unheard of back then 2,600-2,800 fps with a 250. Problem was we had to keep trying to reinforce the sabot, because sabot kept blowing (hint #1 there was a problem) and vent liners were eroded in as few as 4 shots (my personal experience and hint #2 something was wrong).

When RB (or maybe it was someone else) finally pressure tested what we had been shooting it was sobering. I believe we were in the mid-60's pressure-wise. Roughly twice the pressure we shoot today.

We all quit cold turkey.

Do a search for lilgun and savage 10ml2.


Mid 60K? that's scary!

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#3413612 - 10/22/13 11:18 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 11815
Loc: east tn

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Think i might pay the hazmat lol.will look for 4759 local .may have enuf to sight in & hunt with for this year any way but like to have too much vs to little
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#3414098 - 10/22/13 05:16 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: mike243]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2899
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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Try the 300 gr. Bullets with the same powder charge and your group will tighten
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#3414190 - 10/22/13 06:21 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Rockhound]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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 Originally Posted By: Rockhound
Try the 300 gr. Bullets with the same powder charge and your group will tighten


\:D

Nothing about changing a bullet weight will help him. Your idea is funny.

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#3414224 - 10/22/13 06:41 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 355
Loc: USA Indiana

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Although people use N-110 with 300 grn bullets I think it is a bad idea as N-110 builds pressure fast.
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#3414228 - 10/22/13 06:44 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Tar12]
Roost 1
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Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 3996
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Use your Reloader 7 with the 300gr bullets.....I think you will be happy...
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#3414358 - 10/22/13 07:50 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2899
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: ewc
 Originally Posted By: Rockhound
Try the 300 gr. Bullets with the same powder charge and your group will tighten


\:D

Nothing about changing a bullet weight will help him. Your idea is funny.



Uhh.. ummm??? Your telling me that different grain bullets will not affect accuracy?? I tried the 250 gr. Xtp and shot about 1.5 in groups at 100 when I moved to the 300 grainers it shot 1" or less. Explain
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#3414377 - 10/22/13 07:58 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Rockhound]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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I explained above. It's a sabot/bullet fit issue.

Your suggestion to change bullet weight is wrong with respect to his issue.

Plain and simple.

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#3414385 - 10/22/13 08:04 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2899
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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I didn't change anything but bullet weight
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#3414386 - 10/22/13 08:04 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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Before I go to bed Rockhound, send me your gun. I'll send it back with his load and a 1/2 moa group.

300 gr barnes is an excellent bullet, but not a fix for his problem.

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#3414439 - 10/22/13 08:24 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2899
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: ewc
Before I go to bed Rockhound, send me your gun. I'll send it back with his load and a 1/2 moa group.

300 gr barnes is an excellent bullet, but not a fix for his problem.


I've never shot a Barnes out of my savage, so I couldn't tell you if would help or not.

I was talking about the 250gr xtp/ black MMP vs. 300gr xtp/ black MMP


Edited by Rockhound (10/22/13 08:30 PM)
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#3414459 - 10/22/13 08:30 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Rockhound]
SCAT
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Registered: 08/10/12
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EWC, you have peaked my interest. Please explain exactly the aspect of bullet sabot fit that you speak of. Are you saying that his gun will shoot any bullet 1/2 moa?
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#3415311 - 10/23/13 11:31 AM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: SCAT]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
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Loc: Andersonville, TN

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I'm not getting in the middle of this, but I will say that Judd (ewc) was shooting these things before most of us knew they existed. I've seen groups he's shot (pics) that would make a varimint hunter proud at 300yrds. The man knows what he's talking about with smokeless muzzleloaders.
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#3415366 - 10/23/13 12:09 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
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I respect the fact that EWC has been in it a long time. I am eager to learn and share information. As I stated. EWC, you have peaked my interest. Please share.
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#3415869 - 10/23/13 06:08 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: SCAT]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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I never said his gun would shoot ANY bullet into a 1/2 moa. I said I could get his gun to shoot 1/2 moa.

I have offered to help the OP. My point about the bullet wt to RH was not meant as a slight to him, it was just not good advice to keep swapping variables.

The OP has the answer right in front of him. If he wants some help, I will help as much as possible.

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#3415942 - 10/23/13 06:42 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2899
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: ewc
I never said his gun would shoot ANY bullet into a 1/2 moa. I said I could get his gun to shoot 1/2 moa.

I have offered to help the OP. My point about the bullet wt to RH was not meant as a slight to him, it was just not good advice to keep swapping variables.

The OP has the answer right in front of him. If he wants some help, I will help as much as possible.


Dont take that thewrong way I haven't got a lot of range time either, but I was insisting he try the 300 grain bullet. I think you thought I was trying topush a Barnes on him as a cure-all
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#3416169 - 10/23/13 08:34 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: Rockhound]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2259
Loc: Knoxville

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RH-

You and I are good. If anything, I owe apology for being short. I assume people think like me. My bad.

With the Savage, change one thing at a time "slightly". Changing a bunch of variables will screw you up quickly.

Offer still open to WGK.

-Judd

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#3416362 - 10/23/13 10:22 PM Re: Shot my Savage again today. [Re: ewc]
Deer Assassin
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 87188
Loc: Kingston Springs

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 Originally Posted By: ewc
RH-

You and I are good. If anything, I owe apology for being short. I assume people think like me. My bad.

With the Savage, change one thing at a time "slightly". Changing a bunch of variables will screw you up quickly.

Offer still open to WGK.

-Judd


ditto

this i have learned my self but in drag racing

faster et it like ml accuracy you want more and more
but if you change all sorts of variables you dont know what made things better or worse
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