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#3398565 - 10/11/13 07:05 PM Broke a screw on the rear scope base.
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 6513
Loc: loudon

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These are Weaver Grand Slam bases. Not shooting anything different in the way of my load. I pulled the trigger and felt something hit me in the shoulder. It was the head of one of the two screws that hold the ring in place. It snapped right off and these screws are thick.
50 cal savage
42 gr n110
Hor 250 xtp
Mmp black sabot.


Edited by WGK (10/11/13 07:07 PM)
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William G Kollock

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#3398668 - 10/11/13 08:12 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: WGK]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3543
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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I had 2 snap from being over torqued before I bought a FAT Wrench.

Did you possibly over torque them?

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#3398709 - 10/11/13 08:52 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
WGK
WILD BILL
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I could have.
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#3398742 - 10/11/13 09:13 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: WGK]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3543
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: WGK
I could have.


A Wheeler Fat Wrench will open your eyes on how much over-torquing happens with most scope rings.

Most call for 15-20 lbs of torque, I guesstimate I used to put upwards of 40 to 50 on them free-hand.

Over-torquing plus stout recoil = snapped ring screws.

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#3398744 - 10/11/13 09:15 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
Rubberduck270
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Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 3007
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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I had one break in the safe over the off season. It happens.
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#3398763 - 10/11/13 09:30 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
KPH
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Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 4032
Loc: Hendersonville Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
 Originally Posted By: WGK
I could have.


A Wheeler Fat Wrench will open your eyes on how much over-torquing happens with most scope rings.

Most call for 15-20 lbs of torque, I guesstimate I used to put upwards of 40 to 50 on them free-hand.

Over-torquing plus stout recoil = snapped ring sc rews.

I learnt a lot when I got one, it is easy I found out to over tighten.
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"No I am not a good shot, but I shoot often" Teddy Roosevelt

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#3398849 - 10/11/13 10:11 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: Rubberduck270]
pressfit
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Loc: Giles Co. Tn

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 Originally Posted By: Rubberduck270
I had one break in the safe over the off season. It happens.

interesting.. I have never heard or seen a bolt break by itself like that... I have ran a machine shop for 30 plus years and have had everything under the sun come in to be repaired but never a bolt that broke just siting there... what do you contribute the breakage to?
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Do you know Jesus as your Savior?don't wait until its too late.You are only one heartbeat away from eternity. You never know when it will be your last. Repent and trust the Lord today as your Savior!

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#3398863 - 10/11/13 10:20 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: pressfit]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3543
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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I tightened an old weaver ring to base setup with the crossbar connection one night and put it in the safe. Took it out the next morning to go shoot it and it was just dangling there. It had snapped in two overnight. Maybe a temp change added to an already stressed part?
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#3398917 - 10/12/13 12:56 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
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I guess I need to add a fat wrench to my list of needs. Dang this hunting stuff gets expensive. Thanks for the help fellows.
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#3398920 - 10/12/13 01:39 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: pressfit]
Rubberduck270
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Registered: 11/01/10
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 Originally Posted By: pressfit

interesting.. I have never heard or seen a bolt break by itself like that... I have ran a machine shop for 30 plus years and have had everything under the sun come in to be repaired but never a bolt that broke just siting there... what do you contribute the breakage to?

Over tightening, creep and internal stresses in the screw. With the screw being torqued the head has a constant tension load on it, add to the that the internal stresses the screw has in it from its hardening cycle and they are a ticking time bomb.

We had a lab project on material creep in engineering materials class in college. We would put a load on glass plates, wait 2 mins then add more weight, wait 2 mins then add weight, etc. until the glass broke. It always broke after it had been under the load for several seconds. At a molecular level, the material is always moving and when the crystallin structure alligns in a weaker manner it will break. Did the same thing with hardened bolts. Torqued them into a hardened plate (threads well lubed to prevent galling) and waited. With the bolt stretched near the end of its elastic region and just before it was in the plastic region its a ticking time bomb.

So most likely you have seen it happen before and didn't realize it. This same phenomenon is why hardened materials and vibrations don't mix well. Vibrations cause fluctuations in loads and when the crystallin structure alligns in a weaker patrern, hardened materials crack/break. Next time someone brings in a cylinder head off an old tractor for you to drill a bolt out that just happens to have the head popped off on its own without any help, tell the farmer you know what caused it. ;\)

By not over torquing the screw we don't put the screw near its "snapping" point and it can flex under the load without breaking.
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#3398921 - 10/12/13 01:55 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 359
Loc: USA Indiana

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 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
 Originally Posted By: WGK
I could have.


A Wheeler Fat Wrench will open your eyes on how much over-torquing happens with most scope rings.

Most call for 15-20 lbs of torque, I guesstimate I used to put upwards of 40 to 50 on them free-hand.

Over-torquing plus stout recoil = snapped ring screws.

x2. While I never had one break it was a eye opening experience when I bought a used torque wrench and realized how much heavy handed gorilla torque I had used on them! lol

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#3398954 - 10/12/13 05:38 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: Rubberduck270]
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
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Great explanation Rubberduck.
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#3400015 - 10/13/13 05:04 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: WGK]
mike243
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Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 12256
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Back in the day we used " torque ratchets to work on radio's in the army, I would think " vs 'lbs would be closer ,never had any break but have witnessed some at the range before, I have always been afraid to add locktite to scope bases for fear of getting 1 broke Id never get it back out. never had problems of getting loose either, a dry torque & wet torque spec is different fyi
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#3400017 - 10/13/13 05:08 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: mike243]
mike243
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Registered: 09/06/06
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here is what talley sez

7. Torque recommendations: For the lightweight alloy mounts: 20-25 in-lb for the base, 17 in-lb for the rings. Steel: bases 20-25 in-lb. Fixed rings, bottom screw 35 in-lb, top screw 17-24 in-lb. Detachable rings: large bottom screw 35 in-lb, small bottom screws 30 in-lb, top screws 17-24 in-lb. We do not recommend using Loctite but if you choose to do so then we recommend that you use a NON-permanent kind of Loctite.
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#3400036 - 10/13/13 05:47 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: mike243]
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
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I going to order another set of bases tomorrow and probably a fat wrench. And start all over again. Site light should gets back where I need to be pretty easily.
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#3400093 - 10/13/13 07:26 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: WGK]
KPH
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Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 4032
Loc: Hendersonville Tenn

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As far as using locktite, just make sure you use the right one, a softset.
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#3400111 - 10/13/13 07:49 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: WGK]
pressfit
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Loc: Giles Co. Tn

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 Originally Posted By: WGK
Great explanation Rubberduck.

x2!
_________________________
Do you know Jesus as your Savior?don't wait until its too late.You are only one heartbeat away from eternity. You never know when it will be your last. Repent and trust the Lord today as your Savior!

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#3400342 - 10/13/13 11:56 AM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: KPH]
ratsnakeboogy
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 Originally Posted By: KPH
As far as using locktite, just make sure you use the right one, a softset.


I use Sally's Hard as Nails fingernail hardened. It's clear, find it in the girly section in Walmart. Never had a base work loose with it and it breaks free when I want it to.

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#3400519 - 10/13/13 02:34 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
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I have always used fingernail polish.
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#3400521 - 10/13/13 02:35 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
WGK
WILD BILL
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Registered: 02/18/12
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I have always used fingernail polish.
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William G Kollock

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#3400614 - 10/13/13 04:30 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: WGK]
KPH
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Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 4032
Loc: Hendersonville Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: WGK
I have always used fingernail polish.

I have used it but only when the better half is at work. I had forgotten about using it but I have.
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"No I am not a good shot, but I shoot often" Teddy Roosevelt

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#3415513 - 10/23/13 01:25 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: KPH]
tasaman
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1178
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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I have and use a FAT wrench but if I had to do it over again I would just find one of the needle indicator torque wrenches that look like a breaker bar. They are plenty good enough and 1/10 the price.
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#3429547 - 10/31/13 03:25 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: tasaman]
infoman jr.
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Registered: 10/05/03
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Loc: Elizabethtown, KY

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Leupold recommends to put oil on your base screws. True story.

I use my FAT wrench all the time. It's a great item to put on your Christmas/birthday list.
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#3429572 - 10/31/13 03:41 PM Re: Broke a screw on the rear scope base. [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
 Originally Posted By: WGK
I could have.


A Wheeler Fat Wrench will open your eyes on how much over-torquing happens with most scope rings.

Most call for 15-20 lbs of torque, I guesstimate I used to put upwards of 40 to 50 on them free-hand.

Over-torquing plus stout recoil = snapped ring screws.


I've so often worried I'm way over torqueing. I used to work with a guy that would darn near break a sweat installing bases and rings - I knew that was way too much obviously. I've wanted a torque wrench for a long time.
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