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#3389494 - 10/05/13 10:48 PM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: BSK]
T.J.
Spike


Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 94
Loc: Oakland, Tn

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I was at that meeting as well and he emphasized he was only taking a guess at the average score of a 3 1/2 and if my recollection is right said the average score would be in the 120 to 130 range. I think you are rembering when someone asked what a 3 1/2 would be on Ames and Allen said in the 130-135 range. That's just the way I remember it. and im not saying any of them were wrong or right.
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#3389655 - 10/06/13 07:36 AM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: Wes Parrish]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65406
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I'm becoming more and more disappointed with the QDMA's mis-use of data.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3389657 - 10/06/13 07:39 AM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: T.J.]
nick2720
4 Point


Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 276
Loc: martin, tn

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Well I can believe that there are alot of high 120 2.5 yr olds, I'm just a mile up the road if that from Ames plantation. But I wouldn't say the average is that high for a 2.5 yr old BC it varies so much at that age some have the genetics and some just dont. I've had a lot of deer on cam. Shot and filmed some nice 2.5 that are high 120s. It SEEMS in our area if it is 3.5 or older you'll be taking it to taxidermist cause it'll be over 130 or probably a really good deer. I get on the Ames website a lot and look at the can pics I think those pics show a lot about the ages structure and genetics. I think its hard for a lot to believe that a 2.5 can be that big just because its not what what most are used to seeing in ten. But that area is managed, food is there, and good genetics. All I can say is I have seen a big difference in the last ten yrs just on my farm but still wouldn't say the average is that high by no means.

Edited by nick2720 (10/06/13 10:25 AM)

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#3389804 - 10/06/13 09:46 AM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: nick2720]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65406
Loc: Nashville, TN

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nick2720,

Be careful in over-estimating AVERAGES by just looking at the top-end of each age-class. Yes, a few 120 2 1/2s exist. But just as many 60-class 2 1/2s exist. That brings the AVERAGE way down. The same with 3 1/2s. Sure, some whopper 3 1/2s exist in good habitat. But there will also be some bottom-end 3 1/2s that don't come close to breaking 80, hence the AVERAGE is well below the top-end. NOWHERE in TN do 3 1/2s AVERAGE over 130. Absolutely nowhere.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3389828 - 10/06/13 10:11 AM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19286
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
NOWHERE in TN do 3 1/2s AVERAGE over 130. Absolutely nowhere.

I agree. Not even in Lake County.

Another thing which skews hunters' perceptions regarding scores of known age bucks:

Hunters tend to kill more of the larger antlered bucks of every age class. In other words, hunters, myself included, may let a small antlered older buck walk, while we may be more eager to take a larger antlered younger buck.

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#3389855 - 10/06/13 10:33 AM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: Wes Parrish]
nick2720
4 Point


Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 276
Loc: martin, tn

Offline
I agree. I don't think averages are that high. I may be only seeing 10% of the bucks true population on my property and the ones I see killed probably are the higher end of the scale. This will skew any data. I'm just saying from neighbors kills and sightings as well as my own if its older its probably going on the wall. Not stating it can't be small or that its automatically over 130 either.I don't think averages can truly be calculated unless its a controlled environment WO variable to affect the outcome.
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#3389933 - 10/06/13 12:04 PM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: in the dog house!]
MRUTVOL
6 Point


Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 884
Loc: Goodlettsville,Tennessee,USA

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I have found that not only are they overestimated there are also a lot who do not know how to correctly measure. I have had deer brought to me that were measured by a friend of a friend and so forth that were 15 to 20 inches less than what they scored. Soon as I seen them I could tell that 150 score would be closer to a 130. For some reason a lot of people want to add 2 width measurements, the inside and outside, when only one is accepted.
_________________________
"That's my Opinion and should be yours too!"

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#3389935 - 10/06/13 12:06 PM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: nick2720]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4046
Loc: Tennessee

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In my travels all over Tn and Illinois, I frequently cross paths with hunters who regularly mis-judge and over estimate scores.

Without a doubt, the vast majority of those I encounter suffer from TV itis. No doubt, TV "legends" are largely FULL OF CRAP when it comes to stating the score of their recent TV kill..

TINE LENGTH....TINE LENGTH....TINE LENGTH roughly 70 percent of score.

Trust me...a 125 inch buck is a DANDY. It tickles me to pinkness when I hear folks talk about a 130 this or 140 that. AND THEN THEY SHOW ME PICS!!!!

There is a good reason why Tennessee has a 115 entry level for their Registry.
And a 140 for gun.

IMO...(and I said this to BSK MANY years ago, QDM is a BAD idea.

Very poorly understood and BADLY mis-represented!!!
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#3389956 - 10/06/13 12:34 PM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: KENBOB10]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 9455
Loc: Franklin, TN

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 Originally Posted By: KENBOB10
I used to overestimate. My wife caught me at it though. \:\(


OMG LOLOLOLOLO

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#3390255 - 10/06/13 04:30 PM Re: Antler size over-estimation [Re: nick2720]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65406
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: nick2720
I don't think averages can truly be calculated unless its a controlled environment WO variable to affect the outcome.


Actually, you can get very good averages by looking at trail-camera data. Trail-camera data does not suffer from selectivity by hunters. And trail-camera data will show where many hunters are misjudging age based on antler size. Hunters see a 70-class buck and assume that the buck is young, when in reality, the buck might be a small-antlered older buck, even possibly a mature buck.

How many hunters realize that in parts of the East TN mountains 3 1/2 year-old bucks only average a 12" OUTSIDE spread and have only 6-7 points? I bet 90 out of a 100 hunters would misjudge the age of a 6-point 12-inch wide 3 1/2 year-old buck. And that's the AVERAGE 3 1/2 in that area, not the bottom end.

How many hunters are going to a realize a 60-class buck like the one pictured below is 3 1/2? And I promise you, TN--including West TN--is full of 3 1/2 year-old bucks that look just like that one:

_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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