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#3388225 - 10/04/13 09:16 PM Shoot him?
KANATI McD
8 Point


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 2471
Loc: West, TN.

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Got an old buck on cam. I would say at least 5 1/2 year old. He is a pig, body is as wide as long. Only trouble he will only score around 100". I have four on cam 115" to 130". I would be tickled to kill any of them. Not so tickled to kill the 100" pig. Kinda feel like he's made it this far and wanna give the old man a pass (if I ever lay eyes on him). Am I thinking wrong? The rack is what excites me, not the age. What would you do?
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#3388230 - 10/04/13 09:17 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: KANATI McD]
@fulldraw
8 Point


Registered: 09/29/08
Posts: 1907
Loc: Clarksville

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Do what makes you happy.
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#3388233 - 10/04/13 09:18 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
in the dog house!
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IMO I would take him out before the rut and get him outa the gene pool.
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#3388238 - 10/04/13 09:20 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: in the dog house!]
easy45
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Personally for me his age would make me want to take him, I don't care what he would score
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#3388240 - 10/04/13 09:20 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
jlmustain
6 Point


Registered: 01/01/13
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Well, you have three you can take. The rut may take him somewhere else, so I'd do what you think is best for your land. If you think he'll be back, he may grow a little with some good plots or feed, but he may not. It could be a genetic thing that makes his rack lag, so you may be doing your future self a favor by taking him.
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#3388261 - 10/04/13 09:31 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: jlmustain]
catman529
spiderboy
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I'd rather kill the older one, he is that much smarter than the rest and you may not get another chance. But kill what makes you happy
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#3388290 - 10/04/13 09:59 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: catman529]
Southern Sportsman
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I would much rather kill a 100" 5 year old deer than a 120" 3 year old, so thats what I would do, no question about it. But everyone hunts for their own reasons, and should kill what they will be happy with.
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#3388293 - 10/04/13 10:00 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Southern Sportsman]
Southern Sportsman
6 Point


Registered: 09/18/11
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Loc: West TN

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Ps: this thread is worthless without pictures.
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#3388311 - 10/04/13 10:07 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
redblood
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 Originally Posted By: @fulldraw
Do what makes you happy.




absolutely. some would make you think it is your civil duty to remove him. but really who cares, do what makes you happy at the end of the day
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#3388314 - 10/04/13 10:09 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Southern Sportsman]
Gravey
16 Point


Registered: 07/20/05
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Have to agree that I would rather kill him than the bigger ones. Matching wits with a mature buck and beating him at his game would be more satisfying to me. Of course that's easy to say and another thing to hold off the trigger when one of those others steps out. If they're 3 1/2 I'd probably shoot one of them too especially if they're 130". Good luck whatever you decide.
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#3388325 - 10/04/13 10:20 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Gravey]
KANATI McD
8 Point


Registered: 10/30/04
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Here is a pic in early August. I have some recent video of him out of velvet. He is basically a lot taller with mass. I figure he's around 100".
I'm not to good one guessing age, but I know a mature one when I see it.
How old do y'all think he is?
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#3388359 - 10/04/13 11:25 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: KANATI McD]
in the dog house!
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For sure 4.5 maybe 5.5
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#3388386 - 10/05/13 03:10 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: in the dog house!]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1086
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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I say get him early if you can. Was his rack ever bigger than it is now? Genetic potential is whatever he was at his largest rack. If he had a big rack a couple of years ago then he will pass those genes on. If he stayed around 100 inches then he will pass on 100 inch genes.

Heck you got more than one tag. Let one with better headgear make it to next year and get bigger. Good luck. That dude is gonna make a lot of sausage!!

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#3388400 - 10/05/13 05:09 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: tasaman]
Inkstainz
14 Point


Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 7638
Loc: Memphis, Tennessee

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Personally I would kill the big pig old deer. I really don't hunt just for horns though, my main objective is food in the freezer and killing a pig like that puts a big dent in the space I have for deer this year. I say you let one of the younger ones walk and it might get 140-150 next year and take out the old man.
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#3388529 - 10/05/13 07:58 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Inkstainz]
Nhill
8 Point


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 1642
Loc: Maryville, TN

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You shoot what you want


However;I bet you don't get a chance at the 5.5 yo deer. (This is the challenge that people enjoy with older deer)

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#3388543 - 10/05/13 08:06 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Nhill]
RUGER Administrator
Bambi Killa
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Very few 4 1/2 + year old deer will have 200" of antler.
Very few hunters ever gets a chance to kill a 4 1/2 + year old deer either.

Good luck !
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#3388592 - 10/05/13 08:50 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: @fulldraw
Do what makes you happy.


What @fulldraw said. If antler score makes you happy, shoot for that. If age makes you happy, shoot for that.
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#3388595 - 10/05/13 08:51 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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No scientific evidence exists that large-antlered bucks produce large-antlered offspring, or that small-antlered bucks produce small-antlered offspring. In fact, just the opposite is true, small and large-antlered bucks produce male offspring of all sizes and shapes.
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#3388602 - 10/05/13 08:56 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: tasaman]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: tasaman
Genetic potential is whatever he was at his largest rack.


Genetic "potential" is what the buck COULD grow given perfect conditions and maximum food. What the buck actually grew is maximum expression based on his living conditions and nutritional intake. Maximum expression is always less than potential.


 Quote:
If he had a big rack a couple of years ago then he will pass those genes on. If he stayed around 100 inches then he will pass on 100 inch genes.


No scientific evidences exists that the above statement is true. In fact, just the opposite is true.
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#3388605 - 10/05/13 08:57 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: KANATI McD]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: KANATI McD
Here is a pic in early August.


Honestly KANATI, in that picture, I don't see a buck older than 3 1/2.
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#3388612 - 10/05/13 09:05 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/26/99
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As advised, shoot whatever makes you happy. I've passed on a lot of older deer that wouldn't score too high because they didn't. I've shot some younger deer that scored higher and would have probably been even larger if I had passed. My own personal standards have me looking for the older deer that score higher which is the best of both worlds and not near as easy as one or the other...but that's just me. It's enough for me as a coup to have been able to kill an older buck that didn't satisfy me antler wise rather than actually killing him. Be forewarned...you don't kill a lot of bucks this way.
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#3388617 - 10/05/13 09:10 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
KANATI McD
8 Point


Registered: 10/30/04
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Thanks, he's gonna get a pass. Just doesn't do it for me. BSK, I was thinking he was older and on his way down. Is it possible he could explode or produce a better rack with more time?
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#3388625 - 10/05/13 09:14 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: KANATI McD]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: KANATI McD
Thanks, he's gonna get a pass. Just doesn't do it for me. BSK, I was thinking he was older and on his way down. Is it possible he could explode or produce a better rack with more time?


If he is only 3 1/2, absolutely. And by the way, in many parts of TN, 3 1/2 year-old bucks only average around 100 gross. In fact, in the eastern mountains, they average quite a bit less than that. However, in that picture, I don't see anything close to a 100 gross inches of antler. Maybe in the 80s.

But also remember, I'm not saying he is 3 1/2. That is just the age assessment I would give from that single picture. Often, a single picture can produce an unusual view of a buck that makes him look older or younger than he really is. If you get more pictures of him, please post them.
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#3388639 - 10/05/13 09:28 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Since the opening day doe, all I have seen are bucks and I have shot none of them. That suits me. I see no reason to shoot a deer just because it is a buck. On the other hand, on any given day, any one of the ones I have passed may walk by me and get shot.

That is me.

You do what suits you. It isn't competition.

But here is my assessment based on that picture. I doubt the deer is 5.5 and he is not close to 100 inches. What difference does any of that make? If you want to shoot him, shoot. Nobody cares one way or the other. It is your hunt.
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#3388645 - 10/05/13 09:32 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: bowriter]
Urban_Hunter
8 Point


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Either way, that is one cool dude!
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#3388700 - 10/05/13 10:25 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
EastTNHunter
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2897
Loc: Rhea Co., TN

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 Originally Posted By: @fulldraw
Do what makes you happy.


Yep. Don't try to get a consensus from here, cause opinions are like belly buttons.. Besides, hunting is not about satisfying the egos or desires of other people

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#3388701 - 10/05/13 10:26 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: easy45]
W.Seay
14 Point


Registered: 01/17/06
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 Originally Posted By: easy45
Personally for me his age would make me want to take him, I don't care what he would score


X2
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#3388797 - 10/05/13 12:35 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: W.Seay]
KANATI McD
8 Point


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 2471
Loc: West, TN.

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Remember this pic is early Aug. He has grew a bit. He's basically a lot taller in most recent video. If I was putting a true guess on him, I would say around 90-93" deer.
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#3388854 - 10/05/13 01:37 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
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your choice, what makes you happy.
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#3388886 - 10/05/13 02:26 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
Phil1979
12 Point


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 5343
Loc: Arlington, TN

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 Originally Posted By: @fulldraw
Do what makes you happy.


Exactly.

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#3389233 - 10/05/13 06:43 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
Boone 58
16 Point


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 Originally Posted By: @fulldraw
Do what makes you happy.


X~2
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#3389281 - 10/05/13 07:21 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: KANATI McD]
landman
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Loc: TN & Western KY

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 Originally Posted By: KANATI McD
Here is a pic in early August. I have some recent video of him out of velvet. He is basically a lot taller with mass. I figure he's around 100".
I'm not to good one guessing age, but I know a mature one when I see it.
How old do y'all think he is?


I'd say 2.5 to 3.5yr old from this picture, not 4.5 to 5.5
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#3390640 - 10/06/13 08:13 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Gravey]
Adam Jackson
4 Point


Registered: 09/17/13
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I would rather kill a 100" 5 yr old then a 130" 2 yr old. Mature deer are trophy's in my book but maybe not in someone else's. At the end of the day its your choice.
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#3390744 - 10/06/13 08:52 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Adam Jackson]
KANATI McD
8 Point


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 2471
Loc: West, TN.

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How old in this pic?
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#3390795 - 10/06/13 09:21 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Gravey]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
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I would be fired up about the chance to hunt an old pig like that. He would probably be at the top of my list.
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#3390811 - 10/06/13 09:26 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Vermin93]
Tony USMC
8 Point


Registered: 02/16/10
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Yes
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#3390870 - 10/06/13 10:05 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Tony USMC]
in the dog house!
14 Point


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Im still at for sure 4.5 and half of me says 5.5, Leaning towards 5.5 with his neck that big pre rut
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#3391081 - 10/07/13 06:11 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: in the dog house!]
Buzzard Breath
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I love looking at big bucks. Let's see some pics of the 115"-130" bucks you have on trail camera. I can't accurately assess what I'd shoot unless I can see them all.
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#3391315 - 10/07/13 08:51 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: @fulldraw]
Snake
16 Point


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 Originally Posted By: @fulldraw
Do what makes you happy.


Yep !
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#3391605 - 10/07/13 11:56 AM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Snake]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3186
Loc: Franklin County

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I'd shoot which ever I saw 1st to be perfectly honest because older bucks like that don't exactly walk around exposing themselves to hunters very often. You may only see one of them if you are lucky. The really big one with a small rack will give you a lot of meat and won't cost you a ton at the taxidermist either!
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#3391730 - 10/07/13 01:15 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
Thicketmaster
4 Point


Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 420
Loc: eads,tn

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
No scientific evidence exists that large-antlered bucks produce large-antlered offspring, or that small-antlered bucks produce small-antlered offspring. In fact, just the opposite is true, small and large-antlered bucks produce male offspring of all sizes and shapes.


The evidence does not exist? Why do people all over the country buy breeder bucks for there farms & ranches I think if you have big antler deer on your farm they are passing the genes on I've got a farm that I've been hunting for 15 years and almost all the bucks have short or no brow tines I think either the bucks or does one has got to be throwing these deer? I know soil has got a lot to do with antler growth but I've seen places that some huge bucks have come from and there are some big 4 point 5 year olds running around.
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#3391815 - 10/07/13 02:35 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: Thicketmaster]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: thicketmaster
 Originally Posted By: BSK
No scientific evidence exists that large-antlered bucks produce large-antlered offspring, or that small-antlered bucks produce small-antlered offspring. In fact, just the opposite is true, small and large-antlered bucks produce male offspring of all sizes and shapes.


The evidence does not exist? Why do people all over the country buy breeder bucks for there farms & ranches...


Because there are suckers born every day. The breeder buck business is one of the biggest scams going. Unfortunately, most buyers don't have the scientific background to understand they are being scammed.


 Quote:
I think if you have big antler deer on your farm they are passing the genes on.


And your proof of that? I would say, if you regularly have large-antlered bucks on your farm, you have some good habitat in the area.


 Quote:
I've got a farm that I've been hunting for 15 years and almost all the bucks have short or no brow tines I think either the bucks or does one has got to be throwing these deer?


Not necessarily anything genetic. Could be less than optimal nutrition. But IF something genetic is going on, I would suggest it is coming from the does, not the bucks, as MOST bucks disperse from their birth-range and travel considerable distances before establishing a new range. This means most of the older bucks in your area were not born there, hence could not be passing on a local genetic trait. Most of the bucks that would be carrying a local genetic trait dispersed and left the area.

 Quote:
I know soil has got a lot to do with antler growth but I've seen places that some huge bucks have come from and there are some big 4 point 5 year olds running around.


And did that mature 4-point's father have just 4-point antlers? That's the question. In penned research, bucks do not produce male offspring with antlers that look just like their's. In fact, each buck produces male offspring with every possible size and shape rack, from small to large. However, individual females often do produce male offspring with similar antlers, which suggest does may be passing on hereditary antler information.
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#3391818 - 10/07/13 02:36 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: KANATI McD]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: KANATI McD
How old in this pic?


Now in THAT picture he looks mature.
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#3391868 - 10/07/13 03:17 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
KANATI McD
8 Point


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 2471
Loc: West, TN.

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: KANATI McD
How old in this pic?


Now in THAT picture he looks mature.


Ok, now compare the two. Look at G-1 on right antler. 1st pic looks like something going on like a split G-1, second pic not noticeable. And the body, pics speak for themselves. I'm beggining to think its two different deer, possible brothers. But racks are two much alike.
Also pics are from different cameras, 1st one is with a 8 year old moultrie m-40. second pic taken with brand new moultrie 990i. Can the cameras cause them to look so different body wise, or is it the standing position of the deer?
Do you think its the same deer or brothers?
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#3391914 - 10/07/13 04:08 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: KANATI McD]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Not different cameras, just different camera angles can make the same buck look VERY different.
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#3392331 - 10/07/13 08:34 PM Re: Shoot him? [Re: BSK]
Thicketmaster
4 Point


Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 420
Loc: eads,tn

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http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/game_management/deer/genetics/


I think antler genes are half from the does and half from the buck thus larger antler bucks are going to produce larger antler offspring IMO Kanatis bucks is a mature cull that I would not want breeding does in my area even though I know that they will desperse and go down the road to my neighbors! \:\)
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