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#3363871 - 09/18/13 12:56 AM building your own ar question?
reloadxx
8 Point


Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 1205
Loc: monore tn

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I will be first to say I don't no nothing about AR guns so I guy at works says he builds his own Ar with no serial number I ask him how he does it with no numbers this is what he said he buys a lower 80% completed and he finishes milling it out and puts it all together with no serial number he says its 100% legal as long as he don't sell it. So my question is is it legal to own a gun with no serial number on it? And if so how do you handle a officer pulling you over?
Like I said I don't no nothing about building your own gun.
_________________________
judge if you want were all going to die i intend to deserve it

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#3363887 - 09/18/13 04:34 AM Re: building your own ar question? [Re: reloadxx]
El Jagermeister
Spike


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 47
Loc: Shelby County

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This link will answer a lot of your questions. It's a whole lot easier to just buy a finished lower and install all the parts. You probably dont want to finish milling a lower unless you set up a jig to help with the final milling. That adds to the costs and makes it unfeasable. http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-lower-receiver.html
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#3363891 - 09/18/13 04:42 AM Re: building your own ar question? [Re: El Jagermeister]
pcrc
8 Point


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 1232
Loc: Knoxville

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It is not illegal to own a gun without serial number that you have built yourself.
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#3363892 - 09/18/13 04:43 AM Re: building your own ar question? [Re: El Jagermeister]
El Jagermeister
Spike


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 47
Loc: Shelby County

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Also, there are tons of guns made prior to the GCA 1968 that don't have serial numbers (because they were not a legal requirement). It's legal to own those. When dealing with gray areas on firearms legalities, most of the time you have to educate the law officers, yourself. Then they check with their superiors, then they let you go. I've been into NFA guns for 15yrs and have had to explain to many a cop that short barrelled rifles, shotguns, sound supressors (silencers), mortars, and a lot of machine guns are legal to own, with proper paperwork. Cops aren't paid to understand gun laws, just enforce them.
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#3363939 - 09/18/13 05:51 AM Re: building your own ar question? [Re: El Jagermeister]
reloadxx
8 Point


Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 1205
Loc: monore tn

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Thanks for all the clarification.
_________________________
judge if you want were all going to die i intend to deserve it

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#3373179 - 09/24/13 09:46 PM Re: building your own ar question? [Re: reloadxx]
Greg M
6 Point


Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 819
Loc: Riverview, FL/ Bluff City, TN

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And, to add, unless he has a manufacturer's license, it's illegal for him to finish the manufacturing and use it without s/n. So says my ATF field agent.
_________________________
MOA Custom Firearms, LLC
Riverview, FL
Firearms perfection improved

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#3387502 - 10/04/13 09:44 AM Re: building your own ar question? [Re: Greg M]
Dewey606
Spike


Registered: 10/02/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Cheatham Co., TN

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In short, yes as I understand it, you can manufacture your own firearm for personal use only. It may not be sold or transferred. I believe you are required to engrave your personal info in lieu of a serial number to the receiver. Also correct is that firearms manufactured prior to 1968 did not require serial numbers and are grandfathered in. Most still had them however, especially military firearms. The most common ones without them I see are the mass produced .22 rifles sold in department stores in the 1940's-1960's.
From ATF's website:
Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.

The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:


… (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

In addition, the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b), defines the term “machinegun” as:


… any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. This term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

Finally, the GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 922(r), specifically states the following:


It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under the…[GCA]…Section 925(d)(3).as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….

Also, 27 C.F.R. § 478.39 states:



(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of [§478.151(formerly 178.151)]; or (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts [tabulated below] are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or castings.
(2) Barrels.
(3) Barrel extensions.
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions).
(5) Muzzle attachments.
(6) Bolts.
(7) Bolt carriers.
(8) Operating rods.
(9) Gas pistons.
(10) Trigger housings.
(11) Triggers.
(12) Hammers.
(13) Sears.
(14) Disconnectors.
(15) Buttstocks.
(16) Pistol grips.
(17) Forearms, handguards.
(18) Magazine bodies.
(19) Followers.
(20) Floor plates.




As a result of a 1989 study by the U.S. Treasury Department regarding the importability of certain firearms, an import ban was placed on military-style firearms. This ban included not only military-type firearms, but also extended to firearms with certain features that were considered to be “nonsporting.”

Among such nonsporting features were the ability to accept a detachable magazine; folding/telescoping stocks; separate pistol grips; and the ability to accept a bayonet, flash suppressors, bipods, grenade launchers, and night sights.

Please note that the foreign parts kits that are sold through commercial means are usually cut up machineguns, such as Russian AK-47 types, British Sten types, etc. Generally, an acceptable semiautomatic copy of a machinegun is one that has been significantly redesigned. The receiver must be incapable of accepting the original fire-control components that are designed to permit full automatic fire. The method of operation should employ a closed-bolt firing design that incorporates an inertia-type firing pin within the bolt assembly.

Further, an acceptably redesigned semiautomatic copy of nonsporting firearm must be limited to using less than 10 of the imported parts listed in 27 CFR § 478.39(c). Otherwise, it is considered to be assembled into a nonsporting configuration per the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3) and is thus a violation of § 922(r).

Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.


Edited by Dewey606 (10/04/13 09:49 AM)

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#3387843 - 10/04/13 03:15 PM Re: building your own ar question? [Re: Dewey606]
pcrc
8 Point


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 1232
Loc: Knoxville

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You cannot build a firearm with the "sole intent" of selling it or build it for somebody else unless you are properly licensed, FFL 07 IIRC. However you can build a firearm, use it for a while, decide it aint your cup of tea and then sell it.
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