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#3361388 - 09/16/13 01:40 PM No Rolling Back
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Mud Dauber
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Been saying that I was going to do this for a couple of years now, but never followed through. With the season close, I'm draining the freezer stores at all costs and this venison leg from late 2012 season was hiding in the bottom, so I thawed it out and put a rub of sea salt and curing salt on it. It will get flipped every day for the next 7 to 10 days, then rinsed, dried, a thin coat of lard and then hung for ~6 months or so. If all goes well, I'll be slicing off Venison Prosciutto to eat on turkey hunts this Spring.

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#3361416 - 09/16/13 02:00 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
TAFKAP
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Have you tried to straighten the leg? It would probably make slicing off the meat a little easier.
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#3361423 - 09/16/13 02:02 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
TAFKAP
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Here's a picture of one....since it's a hog leg, it might be a whole lot more feasible because of its stubbiness...it was just a thought. Obviously, it's not critical to the cure.

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#3361444 - 09/16/13 02:12 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
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Mud Dauber
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Good point. I'll hang it by the hoof end and it should straighten itself out over time.

I reckon I'll have an excuse to buy one of these: http://www.amazon.com/PastaCheese-Italian-Prosciutto-Clamp/dp/B008ZAYK4O
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#3361453 - 09/16/13 02:19 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
TAFKAP
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As Alton Brown says, "There's only room for ONE uni-tasker in my kitchen!"





But seriously, given the way Italians leave the leg on the counter and slice towards their body, it'd be worth considering some sort of stainless apparatus to anchor the thing down.
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#3361635 - 09/16/13 04:54 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
TAFKAP
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Interesting......I just asked an Italian buddy. They call it a portaproscuitto.
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#3362359 - 09/17/13 07:25 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
BamaProud
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Very cool.
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#3362531 - 09/17/13 09:15 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: BamaProud]
Deck78
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sounds like a good plan. where are you storing it during the 7-10 day flippin process?
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#3362537 - 09/17/13 09:21 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Deck78]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: Deck78
sounds like a good plan. where are you storing it during the 7-10 day flippin process?


In my second fridge that I use for curing. Though it is not actually set up as curing chamber other than putting it on its highest setting, a bowl of salt water and a fan, it does seem to work fine.
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#3362564 - 09/17/13 09:51 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
BamaProud
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 Originally Posted By: Poser


In my second fridge that I use for curing. Though it is not actually set up as curing chamber other than putting it on its highest setting, a bowl of salt water and a fan, it does seem to work fine.


It is a pretty simple/cheep conversion if you choose to do it:

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3214588&page=1&gonew=1#UNREAD
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#3362611 - 09/17/13 10:25 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: BamaProud]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: BamaProud
 Originally Posted By: Poser


In my second fridge that I use for curing. Though it is not actually set up as curing chamber other than putting it on its highest setting, a bowl of salt water and a fan, it does seem to work fine.


It is a pretty simple/cheep conversion if you choose to do it:

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3214588&page=1&gonew=1#UNREAD


Yeah, I'd like to do it, but my second fridge is only 2 years old. We moved in January and the house had a fridge already. Our fridge is too big to fit in the cut out space in the kitchen, so no swapping them out. My second fridge is too new to alter and my ol lady won't let me have a 3rd fridge unless we had a garage, which we don't.

That being said, my half arse curing chamber works pretty well. Its a little cold, but gets the job done.
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#3364340 - 09/18/13 11:30 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
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Mud Dauber
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Day 3 update: I took the leg out to pat dry and flip. Very little surface moisture this morning (lots of moisture on day 1 and 2). Almost all of the salt has been absorbed by the meat. The surface fat has taken on a slight green tint, presumably from the pink salt. The water that has drained out also has a green tint. Noticeable drop in weight. By this weekend, I expect to see the meat pulling back from the bone.

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#3364397 - 09/18/13 12:17 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
Deck78
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Rohan from Whole Larder Love wrote a blog post recently about his experiments and he leaves his in a salt box during the initial curing phase which he indicated left last season's ham a little too salty so i think you're doing it right now leaving it in the full on salt bath
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#3364412 - 09/18/13 12:30 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Deck78]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: Deck78
Rohan from Whole Larder Love wrote a blog post recently about his experiments and he leaves his in a salt box during the initial curing phase which he indicated left last season's ham a little too salty so i think you're doing it right now leaving it in the full on salt bath


Yeah, that would be super salty. You could pack it in salt initially, like for a day and then proceed with flipping it, but, so long as there is moisture in the meat, it would keep absorbing salt. My method, or rather, the method I am using, is based on the same ways I have learned to do Pancetta and Lardo. Besides, it would take a lot of freakin' salt to pack this thing!
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#3364427 - 09/18/13 12:38 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
Deck78
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If I start one in late october I am wondering if I could leave it hanging in a screened box on the porch through the spring like rohan does
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#3364438 - 09/18/13 12:45 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Deck78]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


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 Originally Posted By: Deck78
If I start one in late october I am wondering if I could leave it hanging in a screened box on the porch through the spring like rohan does


I'm pretty sure you could. Once you get the the hanging stage, it is coated with lard and should be dry enough by Spring to withstand any temp. I'm going to hang mine in the fridge for a couple of weeks and then move it to our laundry room addition, which doesn't have any air circulation from the house, unless we leave the door open, which we do not. Its kind of dark and drafty in there, too.

Anyway, plenty of folks in the South used to hang country hams out in the Fall, so I see no problem. Be sure to add some crushed peppercorns to the surface to keep the bugs off.
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Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3364584 - 09/18/13 02:36 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
Poser
Mud Dauber
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Just found this page -great info:

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/hams-other-meats/dry
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Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3364664 - 09/18/13 03:30 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
TAFKAP
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Registered: 11/06/09
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Interesting point about adding the lard layer at a later point in the drying period. It seems that adding it immediately might not be ideal.
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#3365011 - 09/18/13 07:58 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
Deck78
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That link just got bookmarked. Excellent resource
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#3367514 - 09/20/13 01:23 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Deck78]
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Mud Dauber
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This green tint has me concerned. I interacted with Brian Polcyn and Michael Ruhlman on twitter and both said "green = not good" It doesn't look like mold. Polcyn asked if there was fecal contamination. Even if there were, its been in the freezer for 10 months.

I'm going to double down on the salt and see what happens.
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#3367552 - 09/20/13 01:51 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
TAFKAP
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Even though it seems to be contained only to the silverskin areas?
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#3367662 - 09/20/13 02:58 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
Even though it seems to be contained only to the silverskin areas?


Yeah, only on the fat and silverskin. The moisture runoff is green, too. I did come across this: http://meatsci.osu.edu/archive/tp1.html
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#3367663 - 09/20/13 02:59 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
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Mud Dauber
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-just spent $12 on salt and basically filled the meat lug.
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#3367699 - 09/20/13 03:24 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
TAFKAP
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Looking at the first picture, it almost appears like the green hue was starting to show before your drying period. Does it pass the smell test?

I would keep on with the salting route.....not far enough along to consider it a loss yet.
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#3367723 - 09/20/13 03:45 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
Looking at the first picture, it almost appears like the green hue was starting to show before your drying period. Does it pass the smell test?

I would keep on with the salting route.....not far enough along to consider it a loss yet.


I'm on day 5 of salting. Ruhlman said a day per pound and it started off at 13 lbs, so not quite halfway there. If it is mold or bacteria, there's no way it can survive that kind of salting. Its also weird that mold would spring up in 3 days when there is no other mold in that fridge. I keep it clean for curing purposes and no green mold on any of the other sausages. Worst case, even it this experiment fails, I'll get it right next time.
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#3368249 - 09/21/13 08:21 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
BamaProud
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I don't know much at all about curing although I have wanted to get started doing it for about a year or so.

Just a thought about sanitation, I use a no rinse(consumable) acid sanitizer called Star San when brewing. Would a light mist of sanitizer on the meat before adding anything else help kill off bacteria and help prevent things going down hill? Or are there good bacteria/enzymes on the surface of the meat that need to survive to cure properly? I don't think the Sanitizer would kill anything not almost directly on the surface.
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#3368356 - 09/21/13 09:41 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: BamaProud]
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Mud Dauber
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 Originally Posted By: BamaProud
I don't know much at all about curing although I have wanted to get started doing it for about a year or so.

Just a thought about sanitation, I use a no rinse(consumable) acid sanitizer called Star San when brewing. Would a light mist of sanitizer on the meat before adding anything else help kill off bacteria and help prevent things going down hill? Or are there good bacteria/enzymes on the surface of the meat that need to survive to cure properly? I don't think the Sanitizer would kill anything not almost directly on the surface.


You need the good bacteria to keep the bad bacteria from forming.
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#3368411 - 09/21/13 10:23 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
BamaProud
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Thought so...oh well.
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#3372334 - 09/24/13 10:11 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: BamaProud]
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Mud Dauber
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Update. I packed the entire muscle in salt and flipped each day:



I was able to remove the oxidized areas of fat and silverskin. No actual meat was affected. The leg was 3 pounds lighter than when I salted it and noticeably flatter.


I patted it dry, wrapped it in cheesecloth and hung it up. In about a month, I'll coat it in lard and hang it in the laundry room.

Lesson learned: large muscles must be packed in salt. Next time, I'll will but some high quality sea salt in bulk. I also may salt it in a turkey bag instead of a tub.
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#3372358 - 09/24/13 10:26 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
TAFKAP
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That's a relief. I'm glad it didn't become a mad scientist experiment.
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#3372375 - 09/24/13 10:38 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
Deck78
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hmmm, so maybe Rohan was onto something with the salt pack???
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#3372393 - 09/24/13 10:47 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Deck78]
BamaProud
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Registered: 04/03/11
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Cool.
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#3372413 - 09/24/13 11:00 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Deck78]
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Mud Dauber
16 Point


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 Originally Posted By: Deck78
hmmm, so maybe Rohan was onto something with the salt pack???


Yes, its necessary.
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#3372429 - 09/24/13 11:18 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
WMAn
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 Originally Posted By: Poser
Lesson learned: large muscles must be packed in salt. Next time, I'll will but some high quality sea salt in bulk. I also may salt it in a turkey bag instead of a tub.


Try http://bulknaturalfoods.com/ for salt and other bulk foods. They have pick-up locations across the state including Memphis.


Edited by WMAn (09/24/13 11:19 AM)
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#3425843 - 10/29/13 12:28 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: WMAn]
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Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
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I checked up on the Prosciutto today and added a light coat of pork lard and some crushed black pepper and juniper. There is a beautiful layer of white mold forming. I am feeling pretty good about this project. This is 35 days of curing. It will hang for about another 100 days.



Edited by Poser (10/29/13 12:41 PM)
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#3425870 - 10/29/13 12:38 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2582
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

content Online
Thanks for the update. Agree, nothing makes me feel better about the food I'm preparing to eat than a little or a lot of white mold.
I do think it's awesome in all seriousness.


Edited by BlountArrow (10/29/13 12:38 PM)
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#3426956 - 10/29/13 10:28 PM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: BlountArrow]
TAFKAP
14 Point


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 9541
Loc: Memphis

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What is the benefit of white mold? Is it edible? Does it go away?
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#3427289 - 10/30/13 08:24 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: TAFKAP]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 12880
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
What is the benefit of white mold? Is it edible? Does it go away?


The white mold is indeed edible and does not go away. In a curing culture, you have have 2 kinds of mold: good (white) and bad (green, black or any other color). Once white mold takes root, it will prevent the other kinds from forming. If you get green mold, it is not the end of the world. You can save sausages by washing them with vinegar solution and then scrubbing your chamber with the same. Generally speaking, once white mold has taken hold of your sausage, it is "safe" and could be carried around with your in fluctuating environments until ready to eat. (This is one of the reasons that the Romans were able to concur so much of the world)

Some folks use starter cultures to achieve white molds, but, an artisan charcuterists will allow for indigenous molds to form. Once you have white mold in your curing chamber, you simply keep feeding it meat as your are removing meats that are fully cured. A guy told me that he had a pancetta covered in white mold after one day in his chamber. I have some white mold in mine, but not a whole lot and it only seems to be growing on certain sausages.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...ved=0CFQQ9QEwBA
_________________________
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Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3427459 - 10/30/13 10:27 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
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so, if you ever have to choose between 2 dog turds.... eat the one with white mold, not the one with green, fuzzy mold \:D
_________________________
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Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

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#3427512 - 10/30/13 11:01 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: Poser]
BamaProud
12 Point


Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 6826
Loc: Shelby County, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Poser
 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
What is the benefit of white mold? Is it edible? Does it go away?


The white mold is indeed edible and does not go away. In a curing culture, you have have 2 kinds of mold: good (white) and bad (green, black or any other color). Once white mold takes root, it will prevent the other kinds from forming. If you get green mold, it is not the end of the world. You can save sausages by washing them with vinegar solution and then scrubbing your chamber with the same. Generally speaking, once white mold has taken hold of your sausage, it is "safe" and could be carried around with your in fluctuating environments until ready to eat. (This is one of the reasons that the Romans were able to concur so much of the world)

Some folks use starter cultures to achieve white molds, but, an artisan charcuterists will allow for indigenous molds to form. Once you have white mold in your curing chamber, you simply keep feeding it meat as your are removing meats that are fully cured. A guy told me that he had a pancetta covered in white mold after one day in his chamber. I have some white mold in mine, but not a whole lot and it only seems to be growing on certain sausages.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...ved=0CFQQ9QEwBA


Good info. That image is intense though!

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Save the Little ones for the Little Ones.
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#3428661 - 10/31/13 07:40 AM Re: No Rolling Back [Re: BamaProud]
Inkstainz
14 Point


Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 7638
Loc: Memphis, Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BamaProud
 Originally Posted By: Poser
 Originally Posted By: TAFKAP
What is the benefit of white mold? Is it edible? Does it go away?


The white mold is indeed edible and does not go away. In a curing culture, you have have 2 kinds of mold: good (white) and bad (green, black or any other color). Once white mold takes root, it will prevent the other kinds from forming. If you get green mold, it is not the end of the world. You can save sausages by washing them with vinegar solution and then scrubbing your chamber with the same. Generally speaking, once white mold has taken hold of your sausage, it is "safe" and could be carried around with your in fluctuating environments until ready to eat. (This is one of the reasons that the Romans were able to concur so much of the world)

Some folks use starter cultures to achieve white molds, but, an artisan charcuterists will allow for indigenous molds to form. Once you have white mold in your curing chamber, you simply keep feeding it meat as your are removing meats that are fully cured. A guy told me that he had a pancetta covered in white mold after one day in his chamber. I have some white mold in mine, but not a whole lot and it only seems to be growing on certain sausages.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...ved=0CFQQ9QEwBA


Good info. That image is intense though!



Is that even edible still?

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