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#3353526 - 09/09/13 11:12 PM The reason I am not a year-round archer
catman529
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Registered: 11/10/10
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Archery is like throwing a cast net... you can get good at it, and then something goes wack and leaves you wanting to destroy the equipment. Well actually, I am shooting decent groups, but it's frustrating getting it zeroed in. I was consistently shooting a little high and left, so after several days of this I adjusted the sight up and left. I may have over compensated the up adjustment, because the groups are now a little low, but are still left. And I cant touch the sight yet (wont let myself) just to be sure it's not my shooting that is inconsistent. A few more days of shooting and I will move the sight again... hopefully I can have a decent zero by season. Oh yeah, then I gotta shoot broadheads and re-adjust the sight again. Goal is to have a decent group at 30 "just in case" but mainly keep my shots to 20 yards or less in the woods.

The main motivation to shoot my bow comes from the desire to deer hunt with it... I rarely shoot it off-season until later in the summer with enough time to get good for deer season.
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#3353681 - 09/10/13 07:40 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: catman529]
UTGrad
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#3353806 - 09/10/13 09:16 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: catman529]
Crow Terminator
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 Originally Posted By: catman529
Archery is like throwing a cast net... you can get good at it, and then something goes whack and leaves you wanting to destroy the equipment.


I dunno about that...the more you do it, the easier it gets until it almost becomes auto pilot. From what I read in your text, most every problem you describe that you are having, could be fixed with just more days shooting during the year. The two biggest things I see with people are form and fatigue...which both are directly related to one another as well. I see people new to archery pick a bow up, and get all into shooting...and just keep shooting and shooting and shooting, and trying to make adjustments on their bow as they have progressively shot 60+ rounds out of their bow. They end up chasing arrows everywhere.

I'm not new to archery but I'm certainly not on the level of the top archers in the country...but at the same time, I'm not an average Joe archer either. I say that to say this...consistent form is where it's at. If you can't repeat the same thing every shot...you are gonna be shooting sloppy. At the level I'm at, I find myself having to do minor tweaks on left/right hits. That's why there are micro adjustments on sights if you ask me...things like time of day you shoot...because of lighting, etc, will throw you off on left/right hits by just a little bit. If you hang around the big ASA or IBO shoots, you will hear people use the term "turn the corner" when describing the course lay out. Often times...the courses are set up on both sides of a walking trail or road bed...in which on one side, you may be shooting directly towards the sun light...and the on the other side, it will be behind you...or maybe to the left or right of you. Anyway...it's a lighting issue...and on one half of the course, you might shoot everything a little to the left/right...and then when you "turn the corner" you are hitting dead center. It happened to me at the Classic this year...on the first 10 targets, I couldn't hit a 12 to save my life. I kept hitting just a little high and to the left. When we turned the corner...and started the next 10 targets, I shot nine 12s in a row without making any adjustment to anything.

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#3353911 - 09/10/13 11:06 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Crow Terminator]
ImThere
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Cat everything you state in your post is the reason TO shoot year round!
At some point you will shoot enough that your form is almost robotic and you will know beyond the shadow of a doubt When its you or your bow. 9.9 times out of 10 shooting problems lead you back to proper form. What ever factors lead to it, fatigue, arm drop, back tension, grip torquing, bad form is usually the culprit
IMO for what its worth


Edited by ImThere (09/10/13 11:11 AM)
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#3353922 - 09/10/13 11:13 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: ImThere]
catman529
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I figured it was my shooting and not the bow, nothing has changed about the bow except when I move the sight. One thing about fatigue, it's hard to stop shooting when you are trying to end on a good shot and your groups keep getting worse. Sometimes I just gotta quit because I cant hold the bow steady anymore from shooting a bunch.
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#3353935 - 09/10/13 11:28 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: catman529]
Grizzly Johnson
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Catman, in my past experience with shooting.... I have had an older not so good bow and a newer very nice bow.... I was marginal with the older (and slinging aluminum arrows) but with the newer bow and carbon arrows I was much more efficient. Not that having a new bow is a must, just that it made me that much more confident in my ability and my shooting reflected it.

I knowo what you are saying about quitting on a good shot.... but to be honest, if you try that, you will only hurt your shooting worse. You don't have to shoot 50-100 arrows a day.... 1-2 dozen can be just as effective. You get tired or fatigued, your form starts to suffer and after that your shot accuracy will suffer and show it.

As said, your form has to be repeated every time for best accuracy.... Your bow can shoot lights out but with poor irregular form you are not getting the constant, truely repeated shots. As said before, after a while of getting "it", you will become like a robot on autopilot....

You are a pretty accomplished hunter so I won't tell you what to do.... but in my experience your grip on the bow, arm straightness, draw/hold, and difference in anchor point can/will affect your accuracy.
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#3353939 - 09/10/13 11:35 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Grizzly Johnson]
volsgo1
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With a torn rotator cuff on my bow holding side Im having to limit myself to 3 s arrow groups a day.
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#3353946 - 09/10/13 11:47 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: volsgo1]
Poser
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This biggest thing for me is to not overthink archery. A lot of archers over think their equipment and are so anal about the details of their equipment and shooting that the slightest variance (like wearing a different pair of gloves or a fleece hat) throws them off entirely. I look at it like playing an instrument. You can psych yourself out before you go on stage and be all uptight and nervous, or you can plug in and go out there and rock. Slightly out of tune? Who cares? Its rock n roll.
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#3353951 - 09/10/13 11:53 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Poser]
Eric Kilby
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Quit messing with the bow and start adjusting your grip and making sure your sling isn't to tight .. do a shot and adjust your grip slightly and see what happens and just keep trying till you find something that works
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#3354002 - 09/10/13 12:41 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Eric Kilby]
Urban_Hunter
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I'm going to disagree. If you moved your sight and hit low, and tryed the next day and hit low on your first couple shots... you are consistently hitting low when you are fresh. Move the sight down. If you hit the same spot 2 days in a row and have changed nothing else then your sight is slightly off. Hitting the same spot for another 4-5 days is only going to postpone the inevitable... moving your sight. My form isn't perfect... possibly not even good, but it is consistent. I would recommend shooting what is comfortable and if it is consistent then sweat the small stuff after season, it is too close to season to drag feet on a sight that is off. Just my opinion. The faster you get the group to the center the faster your confidence will grow, and in my book confidence is worth twice as much as the new Mathews.
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#3354021 - 09/10/13 12:56 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Urban_Hunter]
muddyboots
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I agree with urban hunter. Now if u get to grouping around the bullseye and the next time u shoot u are not there is a problem.
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#3354141 - 09/10/13 03:24 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Urban_Hunter]
UTGrad
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Registered: 12/01/07
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Buy a crossbow
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#3354145 - 09/10/13 03:29 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: UTGrad]
Urban_Hunter
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 Originally Posted By: UTGrad
Buy a crossbow


??? Inside joke I'm assuming?
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#3354272 - 09/10/13 05:45 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Urban_Hunter]
Radar
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Relax and shoot . Don't shoot when you are stressed out or force yourself to shoot when you are tired . It's better to shoot less arrows per session while fresh than to shoot less frequently and shoot too many arrows per session . 12 good arrows is better than 60 scattered arrows . It takes one arrow to kill a deer , always focus on that first shot . That's all that matters . Make it perfect .
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#3354404 - 09/10/13 07:38 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Radar]
pressfit
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its all that sundrop you drink....
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#3354527 - 09/10/13 08:33 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Urban_Hunter]
TNDeerGuy
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Cat, from what I can tell you are shooting waaay to much during one session and waiting too late in the year to get back into form. To maintain good form year around doesn't require hardly any time—5 minutes a day and shoot 3 to 5 days per week. Shoot 6 arrows and concentrate on making those 6 shots, good shots and you're done—you don't always have to end the session with "the perfect shot". Instead of standing there and shooting groups....take one arrow and leave the others in the house. Because the majority of the time you will only get one shot....so practice that way. Fire twelve, well focused shots and put it up. You can still tell how your groups are if you pay attention to where you hit.

Also, shooting when tired, frustrated and/or exhausted is absolutely the worst thing you can do! It becomes a breeding ground for numerous bad habits that will cause you problems and then it can get in your head and play tricks with you mentally.

If I can help....you know I'm here.
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#3354539 - 09/10/13 08:38 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: pressfit]
TNDeerGuy
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 Originally Posted By: pressfit
its all that sundrop you drink....


There actually is some truth to that, especially if there is a lot of caffeine in one's system from a big cola or coffee drinker.

That is the reason why I only drink one cup of coffee the morning of archery tournaments instead of my standard 2-3cups, and then I don't shoot for 3 hours after my last sip. Try holding steady on a 2" circle @ 40yds while tweeked up sucks to say the least. \:\)
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#3354553 - 09/10/13 08:46 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: pressfit]
FOX FIRE
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 Originally Posted By: pressfit
its all that sundrop you drink....


HA !! I started to tell him he needed a Sun Drop to knock the edge off then he could stack'm in ther.

I do try to end with a good group but if it aint happen'n I get out the fold'n stool & soak up some shade, and then if it aint come'n together I call it off, try later or the next day.

Maybe I need a Sun Drop.



Edited by FOX FIRE (09/10/13 08:47 PM)
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#3354757 - 09/11/13 12:01 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: FOX FIRE]
catman529
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Registered: 11/10/10
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thanks you all for the advice.

I only shoot 1-2 dozen a day on average. I can hold the bow a long time, it's plenty easy to draw (low 60's) but after a couple dozen shots, I start to shake.

Poser, I like your thinking... I am more impulsive shooter than extreme methodical. I want to get the "feel" for it and be good enough consistenly to kill deer without injuring them

UTG, I would but I dont have a desire to and love shooting a deer with the compound

About the sundrop, there is definitely truth to that. I don't drink a lot of sundrop (I don't drink a lot of any soda) but I do notice, when I have a cup of strong coffee during the day, and then shoot my bow shortly afterwards, the caffeine makes it much harder to hold the bow steady.

When I shot today, I had to quit when I noticed I could not hold the bow as steady. Didn't count how many arrows I shot... somewhere from 1-2 dozen. Groups are still low and left... will adjust my sights within a day or two. I want my first shot of the day to always be good, because when I shoot a deer, that will almost always be my first shot of the day.
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#3354851 - 09/11/13 05:59 AM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: catman529]
ImThere
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Registered: 08/24/06
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 Originally Posted By: catman529


When I shot today, I had to quit when I noticed I could not hold the bow as steady. Didn't count how many arrows I shot... somewhere from 1-2 dozen. Groups are still low and left... will adjust my sights within a day or two. I want my first shot of the day to always be good, because when I shoot a deer, that will almost always be my first shot of the day.

So are you saying the first shot of the day is on then they start to go left and low? If so form. But if you miss from the first shot move your sight and be done
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#3356059 - 09/11/13 08:23 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: ImThere]
catman529
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Registered: 11/10/10
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 Originally Posted By: ImThere
 Originally Posted By: catman529


When I shot today, I had to quit when I noticed I could not hold the bow as steady. Didn't count how many arrows I shot... somewhere from 1-2 dozen. Groups are still low and left... will adjust my sights within a day or two. I want my first shot of the day to always be good, because when I shoot a deer, that will almost always be my first shot of the day.

So are you saying the first shot of the day is on then they start to go left and low? If so form. But if you miss from the first shot move your sight and be done
no the first shot fits in with the rest of the group - currently low and left. As I get fatigued, the groups spread out. Didn't get to shoot today. Next time will bring the wrench and adjust the sight a bit.
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#3356201 - 09/11/13 09:41 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: catman529]
deerhunter10
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I can see where your coming from I only started shooting year round about 3 years ago and it does help. but I still have days where I just cant get a good group or the group im looking for and I know its not the bow its me. I honestly just stop shooting for a few days. I think archery is more metal the people really realize if your not confident you wont shoot good. id say your form is probably alright you just need to get that confidence back in you and stop overthinking things. you'll get it figured out man
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#3356226 - 09/11/13 09:55 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: deerhunter10]
Jake47
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Are you shooting at a block/bag target with circles on it or are you shooting at a 3D animal? I picked up a small tip from a friend who is one of the best I have seen when it comes to shooting a bow. He taught me that if you aim at the center of the circle (say 5 ring on a paper target) it is a little challenging to hold the pin in the same exact spot every time. So his suggestion was to sight the bow so that you hold your pin right on the bottom of the circle. It gives you a more definite point to shoot at than covering a circular target with a circular pin. My groups improved tremendously and it was so much more noticeable at 40+ yards.

I know that your issue is with the arrow placement, but it might help you from day to day if you have that tiny point of the circle to aim at. "Aim small. Miss small"!

Oh and about the caffeine. I traditionally take a 5 hour energy along for my all day sits. I've drawn on a few deer within 10-15 minutes of taking it and it can be pretty hard to keep the pin where you want it!

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#3356236 - 09/11/13 10:00 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Jake47]
lung-buster
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Your sights ain't gonna move themself. If you consistently off target move your sights. Shoot a few times and take a break and shoot some more.
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#3356258 - 09/11/13 10:19 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Jake47]
UTGrad
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 Originally Posted By: Jake47
Are you shooting at a block/bag target with circles on it or are you shooting at a 3D animal? I picked up a small tip from a friend who is one of the best I have seen when it comes to shooting a bow. He taught me that if you aim at the center of the circle (say 5 ring on a paper target) it is a little challenging to hold the pin in the same exact spot every time. So his suggestion was to sight the bow so that you hold your pin right on the bottom of the circle. It gives you a more definite point to shoot at than covering a circular target with a circular pin. My groups improved tremendously and it was so much more noticeable at 40+ yards.

I know that your issue is with the arrow placement, but it might help you from day to day if you have that tiny point of the circle to aim at. "Aim small. Miss small"!

Oh and about the caffeine. I traditionally take a 5 hour energy along for my all day sits. I've drawn on a few deer within 10-15 minutes of taking it and it can be pretty hard to keep the pin where you want it!


You bring up something I discovered by chance this year. I shoot much better at 20 when my pin is shooting a tad high. This allows me to let my pin float SLIGHTLY below the spot I intend to hit. This helps me let the pin float vs striving to keep my pin floating on the "x".

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#3357367 - 09/12/13 08:11 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: UTGrad]
Radar
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I shoot better when I have to pick a spot on a 3D target or live deer that I do when I have to aim at a dot .
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#3359030 - 09/14/13 12:01 PM Re: The reason I am not a year-round archer [Re: Radar]
catman529
spiderboy
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Registered: 11/10/10
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 Originally Posted By: Radar
I shoot better when I have to pick a spot on a 3D target or live deer that I do when I have to aim at a dot .
I'm definitely more instinctive on a deer than on a target. On a target in trying to line it up perfect in the center of the O. But then I have also made a couple bad shots on deer, probably because it was a live deer and more stuff is running through my head and I pulled the shots. Well two bad/marginal shots came from shooting a moving deer, something I have to keep reminding myself not to do. When you have a fat buck snort wheezing at 7 yards, it's hard to remember to stop him before shooting! That mistake just about cost me the buck.
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