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#3353017 - 09/09/13 03:30 PM Same buck???
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 432
Loc: wartburg, tn

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So I posted pictures of a Stud 8 point from last year a couple weeks ago. We've not gotten pics of him this year unless he went downhill. We have pics of a smaller racked deer but looks very similar. Some of us think he's a younger, smaller deer and some think he's the same just going down hill. I don't think it is the same deer but let me know what you guys think. I know definitely out of the same gene pool.

Last year's





This Year's




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#3353045 - 09/09/13 03:50 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: morgancountry]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
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Loc: maury county tn

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no I don't think so off spring very possible but I don't think its the same deer
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#3353085 - 09/09/13 04:21 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: deerhunter10]
BSK
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Same buck in my opinion.
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#3353098 - 09/09/13 04:27 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
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Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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I'm of the opinion it's a different buck, mainly because one thing:

Last year, his LEFT antler had a "crab" claw.
This year his RIGHT antler has a "crab" claw.
Not to mention, fewer tines this year.

Growing a smaller rack is one thing; different configuration suggests different buck. It is a very similar rack, and I'm not saying it couldn't be the same buck ---- I'm just betting it's a different buck.

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#3353134 - 09/09/13 04:58 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: Wes Parrish]
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
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Loc: wartburg, tn

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Yea its almost like the antler characteristics are mirrored, including the G2s
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#3354366 - 09/10/13 07:17 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: morgancountry]
Boone 58
16 Point


Registered: 06/23/04
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pics 4 and 5 show the same G-2 characteristics....slight turn in on the tips......so I think it is.
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#3354862 - 09/11/13 06:15 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: Boone 58]
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
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Loc: wartburg, tn

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Yea, I'm starting to think he's the same deer. Hard to think he lost 30 inches in one year. Still a heck of a trophy though if we ever get a chance at him
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#3354871 - 09/11/13 06:24 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: morgancountry]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
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Note the G-3 on his right antler in 2012. It's a significant G-3.
This G-3 appears to be missing on his right antler in 2013. Maybe that "crab claw" (on his right beam) is his G-3, but that would be a major change.

Two changes seem excessive and are suggestive of this being a different buck:

1) That is a major loss in antler from one year to the next on an otherwise healthy-appearing buck;
2) That is a significant change in antler configuration.

Also, take a closer look at the buck's body profile (ignore the antlers) in Pic #6 (2nd up from bottom).
Does the buck in Pic #6 look younger or older than the buck in 2012's pics?
He SHOULD look older if it's the same buck, and I can't say he looks older in any of the 2013 pics, but he actually looks younger in Pic #6.

Just based on his antlers and these pics, remarkable similarity in configuration, but don't believe whether same or different buck can be concluded.

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#3354949 - 09/11/13 07:41 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: Wes Parrish]
REM7
10 Point


Registered: 08/19/08
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Loc: GRUNDY COUNTY

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Different
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#3355036 - 09/11/13 08:31 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: REM7]
BSK
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I have absolutely no doubt that is the same buck.
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#3355044 - 09/11/13 08:36 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: REM7]
Bayou Buck
10 Point


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 2684
Loc: Spring Hill / Perry Co

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It could very well be different deer. Either way its a shooter.
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#3355133 - 09/11/13 09:43 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
dgb7mm
4 Point


Registered: 10/20/08
Posts: 134
Loc: collierville tn

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Left side crab claw one yr to a Right side crab claw doesn't seem likely!
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#3355235 - 09/11/13 10:45 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
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Loc: wartburg, tn

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I have absolutely no doubt that is the same buck.


Based on what? Not doubting your judgement or experience, I just want to know for my own learning. The deer from this year looks younger body wise.

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#3355239 - 09/11/13 10:52 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: morgancountry]
Winchester
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I too think this is a different deer, very likely same Momma and could even be full brothers. The 2nd buck does not appear to be any older if not younger than the first. I see way more decline in the same basic rack configuration on old bucks than I do in complete changes in configuration, along with losing a ton of antler like is the case here. I also see many bucks with a lot of age start to grow 'junk' or short stickers as their rack decreases overall. I will agree closely related but I think different deer.
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#3355252 - 09/11/13 10:59 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
wobblegobble
6 Point


Registered: 02/08/10
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Loc: tn

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no way!Different
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#3355292 - 09/11/13 11:25 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 18629
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I have absolutely no doubt that is the same buck.

I have absolutely no doubt that is either the same buck or a different buck. \:\)

Please share more of your thoughts with our inquiring minds.

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#3355491 - 09/11/13 01:03 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: Wes Parrish]
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 432
Loc: wartburg, tn

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Winchester, if you look closely on this year's picture he has a kicker coming off his right antler at the base
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#3355523 - 09/11/13 01:30 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: morgancountry]
BSK
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You can "never say never" about anything pertaining to deer, but there are far too many similarities between the two sets of antlers, even down to tiny little twists and bends of the G2s, plus the placement and size of the browtines, the matched shape of the beams, etc., to say that is a different buck. Near duplicate genetic shapes do turn up on the same property from time to time, but not that often. What I'm getting at is, statistically, it is far more likely that is the same buck than another buck showing up the following year, that was not around the previous year, and just happens to duplicate a high number of individual antler characteristics INCLUDING antler size.

Not saying it isn't possible to be another buck, but it's highly unlikely to be a different buck.
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#3355576 - 09/11/13 02:15 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: Wes Parrish]
BowGirl
6 Point


Registered: 07/20/09
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Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish


Last year, his LEFT antler had a "crab" claw.
This year his RIGHT antler has a "crab" claw.


Yep different buck.

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#3355693 - 09/11/13 03:48 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BowGirl]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: BowGirl
 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish


Last year, his LEFT antler had a "crab" claw.
This year his RIGHT antler has a "crab" claw.


Yep different buck.


You all do realize that the buck's left antler, minus the G3 this year, produced an identical crab-claw shape both years (using just the beam and the G2)?
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#3356518 - 09/12/13 08:12 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
Thicketmaster
4 Point


Registered: 11/27/06
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Loc: eads,tn

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I don't know why he lost so much antler growth but I think it is the same deer he has a little bend on the tip both years on his right g2
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#3356563 - 09/12/13 09:10 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: Thicketmaster]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: thicketmaster
I don't know why he lost so much antler growth but I think it is the same deer he has a little bend on the tip both years on his right g2


Very common for a buck past his prime to not only lose antler size but also body size. In hardwood regions, it is common for bucks to produce maximum antler score at only 4 1/2, losing tine and beam length (but gaining mass) with each following year.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3356603 - 09/12/13 09:41 AM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
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Loc: wartburg, tn

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Thanks BSK, I knew they could lose antler size, but I figured body size would continue to rise, that's the main reason I thought different deer. But as you pointed out where was "this" deer last year and "last year's" deer this year... so I've came to conclusion of same deer, unless we get pics showing otherwise.
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#3356856 - 09/12/13 01:06 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: morgancountry]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
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Interesting for sure but body conformation tells me possibly different deer. This yrs buck just doesn't look to be an old age past prime deer. I agree it could very well be the same buck, but if so he went to heck in a handbasket in the antler dept, yet appears to still be healthy bodywise! I hope you get more pics to analyze. I cant see the kicker on the right base on this pc?
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#3357003 - 09/12/13 03:07 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: Winchester]
morgancountry
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 432
Loc: wartburg, tn

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 Originally Posted By: Winchester
Interesting for sure but body conformation tells me possibly different deer. This yrs buck just doesn't look to be an old age past prime deer. I agree it could very well be the same buck, but if so he went to heck in a handbasket in the antler dept, yet appears to still be healthy bodywise! I hope you get more pics to analyze. I cant see the kicker on the right base on this pc?


Yea, it's hard to believe he would lose that much... who knows. I just hope we can get him on the ground. No one even seen him last year so we'll see how this year goes. If you look at the last picture, just inches above his head, it looks like the antlers are grown together, it is a kicker of his right main beam just above the base. In the picture above the last one you can see that it actually points back a little. It's hard to see but its there. Either way he's a good deer for our area I think.

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#3357378 - 09/12/13 08:16 PM Re: Same buck??? [Re: BSK]
spitndrum
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I have absolutely no doubt that is the same buck.


thats what i honestly thought as well
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