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#3344313 - 09/02/13 12:32 AM Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion
CR500AFX
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 561
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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Now that a few of them have been done, I would like to gather your thoughts as to which gun would be best to convert. I would rather not have to knurl bullets, etc to get them to fit. I already have an H&R SS Ultra Hunter but would likely buy another one if it is the best candidate. Also, does anyone have contact info for Slufoot?
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#3344315 - 09/02/13 12:43 AM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: CR500AFX]
Rubberduck270
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2679
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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It's a gamble on how tight your barrel will be with any of the conversions. Take a 200 gr SST in a Harvester light blue sabot and see how it fits the bore of your H&R. If its a tight fit, convert it. Each platform has their pros and cons. But a loose bore with any of them will force you to knurl.
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Smokeless Muzzleloading: It ain't your Grampa's flintlock

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#3344519 - 09/02/13 10:45 AM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: Rubberduck270]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3444
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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RD is right, if you are doing a .45/70 conversion it's hit or miss. If you want to go the other route, put a PacNor on a 700ML and you should never need to knurl.
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#3344687 - 09/02/13 01:34 PM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
fullstream
8 Point


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1470
Loc: tipton

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I have done 3 so far, a cva stalker, an encore & a cva apex.
The apex has the best fit & requires no knurling. After shooting it twice it has been an excellent shooter. It is sub moa all day long if I do my part. Gonna try some 225FTX's sabotless that have been sized to my bore next time I shoot.

The stalker has a loose barrel & requires knurling. It shoots well when knurled & actually tried it sabotless today with 250 shockwaves & a wool wad did not have to size the bullet. It shot well. I'm gonna play with this some more as I believe this is a winner for this gun.

The blued encore has a tight barrel and shoot's very well also no knurling required. Sold this to 280longshoot & both times he's shot he's had some great groups.

I have a ss encore I have not sent off yet but based off Roost1 results with his ss it could have a loose barrel.

I can pm sluffot info if you'd like
Hope this helps
steve


Edited by fullstream (09/02/13 01:42 PM)

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#3344879 - 09/02/13 05:17 PM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: fullstream]
CR500AFX
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 561
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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I bought a new black blue H&R 45-70 today and some 200gr SST's but could not find light blue sabots locally. I ran the 200gr SST with the tan sabot down the barrel of the new unfired gun and the pressure was 50lb to start and 45 to keep moving. I tried my SS Ultrahunter and it was 40 to start and 35 to keep moving. Mind you, it has about 30 rounds of 45-70 down the pipe.How much difference in loading pressure is there between the tan and the light blue sabots? Are the light blue ones easier? The 35 pound loading pressure of the SS ultrahunter with the tan sabot feels about right.

Also, with the SST going 2500 to 2600 FPS, isn't it a grenade? What other projectiles are offered that contain lead and are more durable.

That said, I really want to convert the SS ultrahunter 24" barrel and use the new black blue one 22" barrel with iron sights for a close range rifle. The 458WM fills the bill at greater distances.


Edited by CR500AFX (09/02/13 05:32 PM)
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She told me if I go riding/hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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#3345005 - 09/02/13 07:15 PM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: CR500AFX]
fullstream
8 Point


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1470
Loc: tipton

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The tan mmp's are much thicker then the harvester. I tried them with 200sst in my stalker and wasn't able to get good groups.

For hunting ill be using the Barnes 195exp's. everything I've read has said they were the awesome rounds for deer. Rubber duck should have a ton if info on the h&r as he's had one for a while.

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#3345224 - 09/02/13 10:03 PM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: fullstream]
Rubberduck270
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2679
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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The tans are thicker but wont handle the pressures of smokeless. With those loading pressures either should be fine for a conversion. I just finished a blued H&R for a guy at work and his bore is a little tighter than my stainless and shoots GREAT. 5 shots under an inch at 100 yrds. No knurling on 200 gr SSTs and light blue Harvesters and 58 gr of H4198.

Downside of the blued gun is barrel length. He doesn't really pick up any speed above 58 gr of powder. Not enough barrel to burn it in. I shoot 62 gr of H4198 out of my stainless and the speed shows. Non-knurled SSTs in light blues do fine (3 shots in 3/4" at 100 yrds) but she simply wont shoot the 195 Barnes, knurled or not. Best I ever got them were like 1.5" at 100 yrds.

Unless you're shooting at a muley or a moose, the SSTs will be fine. I killed 2 with mine last year, both high shoulder shots (1 @ 135 yrds and the other @ 22 yrds) and both were complete pass throughs. BOTH shoulders. And thats at 2650+ fps.
_________________________
Smokeless Muzzleloading: It ain't your Grampa's flintlock

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#3345239 - 09/02/13 10:33 PM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: Rubberduck270]
CR500AFX
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 561
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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That is exactly what I wanted to know. Since I don't have the harvesters, I was concerned with how much difference there would be in loading pressure between the two sabots. I'll get ahold of Slufoot and get this Ultra hunter conversion started. Thanks all...
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She told me if I go riding/hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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#3346504 - 09/04/13 04:28 AM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: CR500AFX]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 345
Loc: USA Indiana

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The thicker the sabot the less accuracy you will have.The reason being is the bullet will move or "yaw" inside the sabot upon firing.Contact Harvester and they will send you a sample pack to try out. Keep in mind that you that the closer you stay to bore dia. with bullet dia. the better your accuracy will be.

Fullstream if you can get the 195 BXs to shoot well for you they are deer killing machines! I do depredation work here in the summer and the one shot kills are well north of 70 out of my Sav./Pac .45. They flat kill at any angle! I have taken double shoulders shots on big deer up close and at distance and crushing bone and they can not soak up the heat!

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#3355211 - 09/11/13 10:32 AM Re: Best 45-70 for smokeless conversion [Re: Tar12]
CR500AFX
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 561
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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The Slufoot mod is complete. Tested loading pressure with 200 SST and light blue sabot. On a clean, non lubricated barrel, measured 35 lbs. A 200 SST knurled up .002, measured 40 lbs. I haven't shot it yet. I plan to have a range session Friday in the predicted cooler weather. I plan to knurl all my bullets for two reasons. 1) Increase loading pressure. 2) The light blue sabots are so hard and slippery that I think a knurled bullet will bite the sabot better and not slip due to the 45-70 faster twist rate.

_________________________
She told me if I go riding/hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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