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#332789 - 08/08/07 07:48 PM Feeding Deer
wcsd462
4 Point


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 336
Loc: Wilson Co.

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RECENTLY I PICKED UP A COPY OF THE 2008 TENNESSEE HUNTING REGULATIONS, I DO LIKE THE NEW FORMAT WHICH IS DESIGNED FOR BETTER UNDERSTANDING, BUT THE ARTICLE ON FEEDING DEER DISAPPOINTED ME. I KNOW THIS SUBJECT IS AT THE CENTER OF NUMEROUS DEBATES AND WILL NEVER BE AGREED ON BY ALL SIDES, HUNTERS OR NON HUNTERS ALIKE.
THIS ARTICLE MADE OUT LIKE IF YOU FEED A DEER YOU WILL AUTOMATICALLY DOMESTICATE THE ANIMAL AND YOU WILL CAUSE UNREPEATAPLE DAMAGE TO THE ECOLOGY OF ALL WILDLIFE IN THAT AREA. THIS ARTICLE ALSO MENTIONED YOU COULD SPREAD DISEASE IF YOU FEED DEER. IF I AM CORRECT AND I MAY BE OFF ON THE NUMBERS BUT THEIR ARE TWENTY FOUR STATES THAT HAVE MADE IT LEGAL TO SUPPLEMENTAL FEED DEER, YES I SAID SUPPLEMENTAL FEED NOT BAITING. ACCORDING TO THIS ARTICAL IN QUESTION THEY HAVE DOOMED THEIR DEER HERD'S.
IN THE DAY AND AGE WE LIVE IN, WITH THE LOSS OF LAND DUE TO DEVELOPMENT AND CLEAR CUTTING FOR TIMBER, I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT IT IS GETTING HARD FOR ME TO FIND LAND WHERE THEIR ARE BIG OAK PATCHES TEAMING WITH ACORNS FALLING FROM EVERY TREE, WHICH BRINGS ME TO ANOTHER POINT, WE CAN HUNT OVER PLANTED FOOD PLOT'S AND OAK'S WITH ACORNS ON THE GROUND BUT WE CANT FEED OUT DEER HERDS A SUPPLEMENTAL FOOD SOURCE TO ENHAHCE THE QUALITY OF THE HERD,AND IF YOU DO YOU HAVE TO STAY AWAY FROM IT DURING HUNTING SEASON, OR IT HAS TO BE OFF THE GROUND FOR TEN DAYS PRYOR TO THE HUNT, THAT IS IF YOU DONT KILL YOUR ENTIRE HERD FROM CARBO OVERDOSE. I HAVE HUNTED STATES WERE IT IS LEGAL TO HUNT OVER FEEDERS AND LET ME TELL YOU IT IS NO DOVE SHOOT, THE DEER IS AS CAUTIOUS AT THE FEEDERS AS THEY ARE AT THE BIG OAK TREE MAYBE EVEN MORE.
THESE ARE MY OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS, I WOULD LIKE TO HERE YOURS

THANKS.
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#332867 - 08/08/07 08:45 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: wcsd462]
deerchaser007
10 Point


Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 4282
Loc: Bradyville, TN USA

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I will be 100 percent honest with you,.. I AGREE.

BUT,.. the feeding of deer is dangerous. The spread of disease is highly increased when using supplemental feed. This is , if you get folks who do it incorrectly. There is a correct way of doing it and a very wrong way of doing it. BUT,.. done correctly in a wild deer herd ,. it can be very beneficial. BUT,.. its VERY expensive to do correctly. And this is were most folks would do more harm than good. They would cut corners and put the herd at risk. For this reason,.. i do not recommend supplemental feeding as a food source for deer in TN.

I could care less about the ethics of hunting over it. I believe it should be a choice for each individual hunter. The reason its illegal in TN during hunting season is up in the air. Some say its because hunters don't want it. I say them hunters don't want it because they hunt over corn now and don't want everyone else doing it also to take away their advantage. BUT,.. keep in mind. Its only illegal during season. I know folks who have successful supplemental feed programs in the off season and incorporate a food plot program for hunting season.

Thats my opinion though........
_________________________
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Guard your tongue in youth,.. and in age you may mature a thought that will be of service to your people!!
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#332912 - 08/08/07 09:12 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: deerchaser007]
InfoMan
TWRA Information Officer
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 3819
Loc: Morristown, TN

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I'm sorry, let me waste my breath. I have been reading where people are finding dead deer near water...EHD. Common situation in scattered areas across the state in the fall. EHD is spread from animal to animal by biting midges (flies). The more concentrated the deer are, the easier it is for midges to go from deer to deer. Artificial concentrates deer.

What would you say about feeding? good or bad

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#332916 - 08/08/07 09:15 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: deerchaser007]
Darkthirty II
6 Point


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 534

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Well, coming from a state that allows baiting, I've done it and still do it on my land in NC, I have no tame deer running around (wish I did) and none appear sickly, so I have a hard time agreeing with some of that. There probally is a high liklihood of spreading disease in areas such as up north, where deer gather in huge numbers during the winter, but here and in NC, the deer have no need to.
To me it seems that having a salt lick in the ground where the deer are constantly eating and licking dirt, would be more harmful, as far as picking up parasites and such. Not against this practice, just don't see much difference. Everyone has their opinions on this, but its similar to anti-gun people knowing everything about firearms, how can you say whats good or bad, when you have never done it or experienced it.

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#333241 - 08/09/07 07:43 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: Darkthirty II]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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...I have no tame deer running around (wish I did)...

I have domesticated cattle in my backyard, but they are nowhere near "tame." They are very wary of people and won't let you get anywhere near them, but they are still domesticated.


...and none appear sickly,...

How would you know a deer is sick unless it was stumbling around? Can you look at a person and tell they have the early stages of a disease? Many diseases show little outward symptoms until the deer is at death's door. I've read of many case of fairly substantial deer die-offs and not a single local hunter noticed.


To me it seems that having a salt lick in the ground where the deer are constantly eating and licking dirt, would be more harmful, as far as picking up parasites and such.

That is a concern, but primarily for CWD transmission. The high salt content of the salt lick and salt saturated soil will kill any infectious organism (the salt ruptures their cell walls causing massive dehydration of the organism). However, the infectious agent of CWD (prion) is not a living thing, and some genetic research indicates the high salt environment may actually strengthen the prion. If I was working in a CWD area, I would definitely remove any non-natural salt licks.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#333434 - 08/09/07 10:21 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BSK]
Darkthirty II
6 Point


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 534

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Maybe I'm just hunting in an area where there are so many deer, that large die offs from feeding are'nt noticed. Its widely accepted practice where I hunt, and I have never seen it make a difference in the health of the herd. We have places where we put out 100 lbs every 2 days during hunting season, and have been doing it for years at the same spot, same story every season,good bow hunting but then the gigs up and they are strictly nocturnal. Except for the bucks that come by during the daylight to check for does, or their is a strong front coming in that gets all critters, not just deer to stirring.
I'm sure there are instances where deer become accustomed to feeding, but I have never seen it. And myself and the group I hunt with, hunt a lot of separate places and land. Probally average 1000lbs a week in hunting season.
I am not disputing the disease factors, I personally just have never seen it, and until the numbers start reflecting the findings, I will continue to do so. Don't mean to start a war of words, thats just the way I see it.

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#333488 - 08/09/07 10:55 AM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: Darkthirty II]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Darkthirty II,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that we are producing large-scale die-offs at the present time from feeding. However, those who feed are ABSOLUTELY opening the door to massive spread of contagious disease.

I always hate broaching this subject because nothing makes hunters madder than hinting or outright stating that they don't know what their talking about. Experienced hunters generally pride themselves on their powers of keen observation, and they believe what they see above all other things. But as a professional manger of deer that has worked just about everywhere across the eastern US, I can tell you I rarely, rarely meet hunters/landowners who really have any idea what is going on with their local deer herd. They simply don't realize that health problems in deer herds are not easily observed. Heck, I work with deer for a living and I can't look at deer in a field and tell if they are healthy or not. I need to inspect internal organs and body condition to make that determination. I wish I had a dollar for every time a landowner told me his deer herd and habitat were in great shape, yet I could see the massive habitat degradation from deer over-browsing when I pulled up to his/her front gate.

In addition, I can state case after case of known major deer die-offs in various locations around the U.S. that were never reported by a single hunter. A third of the deer population died-off in a single summer and not one hunter reported finding a dead deer and not a single hunter reported lower than average deer sightings that hunting season.

All I can tell you is that in a talk that the head of the Southeast Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study group gave a few years ago, he stated that the two greatest threats to wildlife in the U.S. are: 1) the translocation of wildlife (the moving of wildlife from one area of the country to another--such as the legal and illegal trade in "breeder animals"); and 2) the artificial feeding of wildlife. Numerous infectious diseases exist that will rapidly spread at feeder sites, which has occurred repeatedly in the North. But what is even more worrisome is the potential for new, never before seen contagious diseases to develop. And this is much more of a threat than most realize. Diseases mutate incredibly rapidly. Every year the flu that goes around is a different variety of flu. It mutates annually to the point that last year's flu vaccine is not effective against this year's variety of flu. Nature abhors a vacuum. If a biological system will allow for the rapid spread of contagious disease yet no disease exists, a contagious disease will eventually develop. Maybe not this year, next year or in ten years, but a contagious disease WILL develop (see the Black Death in Medieval times). And as of the talk I heard given by the Disease Study head, he mentioned two new wildlife disease in deer that have been recently observed but could not be identified as any known disease. And not surprisingly, these new diseases were only appearing in the Southeast in states/areas that allowed baiting. As soon as you left the regions that allowed baiting, those diseases disappeared from the herds.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#333656 - 08/09/07 12:57 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BSK]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6642
Loc: Nashville

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wcsd-

It's understood that the overall risk of disease (in deer) is probably very small, but the positive impacts of supplemental feeding is even smaller than that. We are simply trying to get people to understand that they are simply rolling the dice to get little or no return on their effort. So why would people take that risk?

FYI - I put (in deer) in parantheses on purpose. All too often people focus on a target species not realizing the impacts on non-target species (birds and furbearers especially can be negatively impacted). Disease risks multiply when you consider all the other wildlife as a whole. That's why our focus should be on habitats and not individual species. Improved habitats will benefit all species out there that occupy that niche.


Edited by BigGameGuy (08/09/07 12:58 PM)
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If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.

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#333671 - 08/09/07 01:23 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BigGameGuy]
TOW
10 Point


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 4263
Loc: Back 40

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http://wildlife1.usask.ca/wildlife_health_topics/wildlife_baiting.pdf
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#333681 - 08/09/07 01:31 PM Re: Feeding Deer [Re: BigGameGuy]
Slaughter-06
14 Point


Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 8264
Loc: Dyersburg,Tn.

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If you just have to feed, what if you broadcast the grain over a large area, put it in a spreader and keep moving on down the road or field. just like it being in a 200 ac cut corn field if you spread it out you don't congregate the deer. would this not be a good solution to feeding game.
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