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#3327907 - 08/19/13 12:36 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: de novo]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 61051
Loc: Smith Co.

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"Mission accomplished" for starters. That was specifically hung for the returning airmen who completed their mission of bombing. (Which you mentioned as a winning strategy) - It was not Bush's message. In fact the speech he gave spoke about a long campaign to root out and kill terrorists.


Second, it's was the UN who passed 17 resolutions that were ignored by Saddam and the Iraqi guard. It was Saddam who kicked out the inspectors. The vote to invade Iraq was bipartisan and included somewhere around 50 different nations. Hardly a Republican partisan effort.

Now we are dealing with Syria using Chemical weapons. Wonder where THOSE came from? Maybe instead of scoring political points, we should have been tracking down those convoys heading over the border.

Bush was no saint, but in their efforts to demoralize one man, the left gave comfort to the enemy and unleashed untold numbers of chemical and biological weapons into the hands of rouge nations and terrorist supporting dictators.

_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3327954 - 08/19/13 01:08 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: Crappie Luck]
de novo
10 Point


Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 4031
Loc: Middle TN

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First time I had heard Mission Accomplished actually meant partial Mission Accomplished. I always thought that he landed on an aircraft carrier wearing a bomber jacket and gave a speech about the end of major combat operations in Iraq.

The head UN inspector was screaming no weapons were present. He was discredited by the administration. The UN passes resolutions all the time. UN resolutions are no reason or excuse for war. At the end of 2012 the UN had 22 resolutions against Israel. The UN is trying to use their small arms treaty as way to infringe on our second amendment.

IF the Syrian chemical weapons came from Iraq (which Bush, himself, conceded they did not have) then the weapons originated from the US given to Iraq to use against Iran.

Blaming the left for Bush's foreign policy outcomes is much like blaming Obama's economy on Bush. Partisans may buy it but objective people will just roll their eyes.
_________________________
“Reality is what continues to exist whether you believe in it or not.” 

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.”

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#3327971 - 08/19/13 01:37 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: de novo]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 61051
Loc: Smith Co.

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I agree about the partisan BS. That's why I used to use Clinton quotes referring to the MDS in Iraq. It was most certainly a bipartisan agreement.

Only AFTER the invasion started did it become a solely Republican idea.

But I'm tired of defending Republicans here. They are not my friend any more than the democrats. I just wanted to debate the idea that the wars were a mistake.
I don't agree with that. But how they have been mismanaged certainly has been.

I think we blew an opportunity to knock Islam back to the stone ages. Instead, we've shot them, then paid them, then built them houses, armed them and then shot at them again.

We don't even know who's side we are on any more
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3327994 - 08/19/13 02:02 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: Crappie Luck]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8609
Loc: Middle Tennessee

Offline
See my signature line at bottom. The lack of such a hand wielding the sword since 1945 is the root cause of our present military quagmire.
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3328019 - 08/19/13 02:21 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: Crappie Luck]
de novo
10 Point


Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 4031
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck

I think we blew an opportunity to knock Islam back to the stone ages. Instead, we've shot them, then paid them, then built them houses, armed them and then shot at them again.

We don't even know who's side we are on any more



After 9/11, we (Republicans) blew an opportunity to isolate Islam, protect our country, and completely reform immigration. Just think of our country now if in 2001 the Republican President and Congress correctly framed 9/11 as an immigration and cultural problem. We should have removed all illegal immigrants and those with expired visas and secured the border. Deported and banned all immigrants from countries with radical Muslim ties. They would fight themselves to the Stone Age.
_________________________
“Reality is what continues to exist whether you believe in it or not.” 

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.”

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#3328022 - 08/19/13 02:22 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: de novo]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 61051
Loc: Smith Co.

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 Originally Posted By: de novo
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck

I think we blew an opportunity to knock Islam back to the stone ages. Instead, we've shot them, then paid them, then built them houses, armed them and then shot at them again.

We don't even know who's side we are on any more



After 9/11, we (Republicans) blew an opportunity to isolate Islam, protect our country, and completely reform immigration. Just think of our country now if in 2001 the Republican President and Congress correctly framed 9/11 as an immigration and cultural problem. We should have removed all illegal immigrants and those with expired visas and secured the border. Deported and banned all immigrants from countries with radical Muslim ties. They would fight themselves to the Stone Age.




Can't argue that point at all. This country is paralyzed with political and partisan correctness.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3328033 - 08/19/13 02:31 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: Bambi Buster]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8609
Loc: Middle Tennessee

Offline
I agree that President Eisenhower's warning about the influence of the military-industrial complex was prudent. We should have done a better job of heeding his counsel.

As is often the case, though, it's not quite that simple. Many reasonable people are in favor of reining in the military-industrial complex......until the cuts come in their back yards. One has to look no further than this very page to see a classic example of what I mean. The military-industrial complex and "corporate greed" (both of which most definitely do exist), have many levels and layers.

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3327378&page=1#Post3327378
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3328044 - 08/19/13 02:35 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: Crappie Luck]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8609
Loc: Middle Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Originally Posted By: de novo
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck

I think we blew an opportunity to knock Islam back to the stone ages. Instead, we've shot them, then paid them, then built them houses, armed them and then shot at them again.

We don't even know who's side we are on any more



After 9/11, we (Republicans) blew an opportunity to isolate Islam, protect our country, and completely reform immigration. Just think of our country now if in 2001 the Republican President and Congress correctly framed 9/11 as an immigration and cultural problem. We should have removed all illegal immigrants and those with expired visas and secured the border. Deported and banned all immigrants from countries with radical Muslim ties. They would fight themselves to the Stone Age.




Can't argue that point at all. This country is paralyzed with political and partisan correctness.



The Republicans also blew an opportunity to teach radical Islamic jihadists a lesson they, their survivors, nor the world would not forget for many generations. Again, my signature line.
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#3328134 - 08/19/13 03:31 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: Bambi Buster]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16235
Loc: Tampa FL

content Online
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Originally Posted By: de novo
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck

I think we blew an opportunity to knock Islam back to the stone ages. Instead, we've shot them, then paid them, then built them houses, armed them and then shot at them again.

We don't even know who's side we are on any more



After 9/11, we (Republicans) blew an opportunity to isolate Islam, protect our country, and completely reform immigration. Just think of our country now if in 2001 the Republican President and Congress correctly framed 9/11 as an immigration and cultural problem. We should have removed all illegal immigrants and those with expired visas and secured the border. Deported and banned all immigrants from countries with radical Muslim ties. They would fight themselves to the Stone Age.




Can't argue that point at all. This country is paralyzed with political and partisan correctness.



The Republicans also blew an opportunity to teach radical Islamic jihadists a lesson they, their survivors, nor the world would not forget for many generations. Again, my signature line.


^^^THIS^^^^^

You bring a knife to a fight, we bring a gun. You kill one of us, we kill your whole family. Radical Islam should have been severely punished for killing 3000+ of our citizens. Japan paid dearly when they picked a fight with the biggest dog on the porch.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3328460 - 08/19/13 08:16 PM Re: The false argument about "defending our freedom" [Re: Bambi Buster]
de novo
10 Point


Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 4031
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Originally Posted By: de novo
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck

I think we blew an opportunity to knock Islam back to the stone ages. Instead, we've shot them, then paid them, then built them houses, armed them and then shot at them again.

We don't even know who's side we are on any more



After 9/11, we (Republicans) blew an opportunity to isolate Islam, protect our country, and completely reform immigration. Just think of our country now if in 2001 the Republican President and Congress correctly framed 9/11 as an immigration and cultural problem. We should have removed all illegal immigrants and those with expired visas and secured the border. Deported and banned all immigrants from countries with radical Muslim ties. They would fight themselves to the Stone Age.




Can't argue that point at all. This country is paralyzed with political and partisan correctness.



The Republicans also blew an opportunity to teach radical Islamic jihadists a lesson they, their survivors, nor the world would not forget for many generations. Again, my signature line.


The place to start would be Saudi Arabia then not secular Iraq.
_________________________
“Reality is what continues to exist whether you believe in it or not.” 

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.”

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