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#3326658 - 08/18/13 12:56 PM Anyone using red clover anymore?
BSK
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I know it was very popular for awhile, but I don't hear much discussion about red clover anymore. Anyone still using it for summer plots?

Thinking about trying it next year.
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#3326689 - 08/18/13 01:35 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
drrxnupe
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I bought 15# of crimson to mix with ladino and WTI Imperial. We'll see what happens.
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#3326699 - 08/18/13 01:56 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: drrxnupe]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: drrxnupe
I bought 15# of crimson to mix with ladino and WTI Imperial. We'll see what happens.


Crimson is a cool season annual. Red clover is a warm season bi-annual.

I'm a heavy user of crimson in my fall mixtures.
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#3326726 - 08/18/13 02:46 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
jmb4wd
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I just mowed about 2 acres of clover yesterday and I noticed quite a bit of browse on red clover. I see the same at my small clover patch.

The way I see it, I dont like to eat the same thing everyday!

Side note---in that 2 acres, the arrow leaf clover was hammered. It took me forever to find a plant that had leaves and flower to identify it.
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#3326951 - 08/18/13 06:28 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: jmb4wd]
smstone22
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I put cinnamon red in every clover plot I do. It is an integral part IMO.
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#3327079 - 08/18/13 08:01 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
Wes Parrish
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Crimson is a cool season annual. Red clover is a warm season bi-annual.
 Originally Posted By: smstone22
I put cinnamon red in every clover plot I do. It is an integral part IMO.
 Originally Posted By: jmb4wd
The way I see it, I dont like to eat the same thing everyday!
 Originally Posted By: jmb4wd
. . . . the arrow leaf clover was hammered.

My plots are more for year-round nutritional supplementation than for hunting over, so I believe the more bio-diverse, the better. So yes, I've been adding red clovers to the mix for years. There is also the added benefit of spring "beautification". \:\)

Typically, I'm purchasing some commercial blends which I "blend" in with the clover I purchase in bulk. I usually buy crimson and one variety of a red clover in 50 lb bags. This becomes my base "stock" (in part because it's relatively cheap). I then add several 9 to 27-lb bags of Imperial Whitetail (Ladino), Tecomote Monster Mix (a nice blend of several clovers, including 2 or more reds), and Biologic Clover Plus (which is another but somewhat different than the Tecomote mix, also containing reds). While these mixes contain a little chicory, I add some more.

While this mix may not be ideal for all soil and growing conditions, it's a practical way for me to do it, and some portions of the mix are going to perform even on those high wind-blown ridgetop plots (mainly the crimson and chicory). Portions of most plots will get at least lightly re-tilled each fall, but most plots have portions and extended buffers that are not tilled annually.

The fall tilled portions get wheat, oats, brassicas (going big this year on Biologic Maximum), along with some fresh blended clovers. Non-tilled areas get an annual dose of the clover mixture, along with a little brassica. All will be mowed a minimum of once annually, some twice and more, some re-tilled.

While the base mix goes on all, I do adjust the seeding rate to allow for some customizing to the soil/conditions of the plot. The better soil bottomland plots will be seeded very lightly with the mix, to allow for my adding more ladino (may be the best clover for good soil). The worst soil plots will also be seeded very lightly with the mix, to allow for my adding more crimson (usually the best clover for poor soil) and a little rape seed (also very cheap to buy).

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#3327607 - 08/19/13 08:21 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Wes Parrish]
BSK
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Great info Wes. Thanks.

In the past, we've been using a mixture of cereal grains, crimson and arrowleaf clover to produce a fall planting that is productive until mid-July (when the arrowleaf blooms and seeds out). The arrowleaf grows tall enough to stay above the weed and grass growth that sets in in spring and early summer. However, the plots have been left to go fallow after the arrowleaf dies back, until we mow and spray in fall to reseed (usually mid-September). But we've found that if we mow in late July and spray with a grass-killer, we can get the crimson to sprout and produce nice growth by August (with adequate rainfall). I think if we can find the right timing in late spring, after the cereal grains and crimson clover have seeded out and died back, we could mow and use grass-killer to give the arrowleaf a big boost, and we could broadcast red clover to give us a productive plot all summer.
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#3327621 - 08/19/13 08:31 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
Bayou Buck
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
But we've found that if we mow in late July and spray with a grass-killer, we can get the crimson to sprout and produce nice growth by August (with adequate rainfall).


I spray end of June/ early July every year and my crimson seems to come back up in August. Took this pic of the Crimson this past weekend.


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#3327654 - 08/19/13 08:46 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Bayou Buck]
BSK
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Yup, that's exactly what I'm seeing Bayou Buck. We mowed and sprayed in late July and again this last weekend.
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#3327675 - 08/19/13 09:05 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
Boll Weevil
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Just to make sure I understand, are you guys overseeding with that red a little each year or is it all coming back from it's own seed that is produced/deposited? How many years are you getting from 1 planting before having to start over?
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#3327687 - 08/19/13 09:15 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Bayou Buck]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
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 Originally Posted By: Bayou Buck
 Originally Posted By: BSK
But we've found that if we mow in late July and spray with a grass-killer, we can get the crimson to sprout and produce nice growth by August (with adequate rainfall).


I spray end of June/ early July every year and my crimson seems to come back up in August. Took this pic of the Crimson this past weekend.




We are doing the same thing. But also adding some arrowleaf in with crimson.
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#3327792 - 08/19/13 10:30 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
BSK
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8 POINTS,

I have crimson and arrowleaf mixed into my fall plantings, but I'm think of spreading red clover in spring to fill in any gaps during the summer. Red clover tested exceptionally well in every food plot variety test I've seen, both for tonnage, utilization, preference, and nutritional content.
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#3327795 - 08/19/13 10:31 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Boll Weevil]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: Boll Weevil
Just to make sure I understand, are you guys overseeding with that red a little each year or is it all coming back from it's own seed that is produced/deposited? How many years are you getting from 1 planting before having to start over?


I'm looking at that. Red clovers are bi-annuals, in that they last two years. Then they need to be reseeded. That is, in theory. I know of red clover pastures (cut for hay) that are productive every year without any reseeding.
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#3327817 - 08/19/13 10:47 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
Boll Weevil
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Got it. I'm all about plantings that are self-sustaining, long lived, and require little maintenance. Like Mr. Parrish mentions above, I typically don't hunt over these...they are only to build the year-round food availability and provide bugging for turkeys.

It's worked just as planned but had considered overseeding with another variety (or even 2 others) to perhaps extend availability and tonnage even further. Might look into this, but my only concern is Durana (what I have now) is really competitive and I don't know if it would eventually choke out the reds.

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#3327840 - 08/19/13 11:12 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Boll Weevil]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: Boll Weevil

It's worked just as planned but had considered overseeding with another variety (or even 2 others) to perhaps extend availability and tonnage even further. Might look into this, but my only concern is Durana (what I have now) is really competitive and I don't know if it would eventually choke out the reds.


If you already have a warm-season perennial clover in your plots, I would NOT add an annual to them. I'm only considering summer red clover because I have nothing else growing in the plots in mid-summer.
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#3327849 - 08/19/13 11:15 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
8 POINTS,

I have crimson and arrowleaf mixed into my fall plantings, but I'm think of spreading red clover in spring to fill in any gaps during the summer. Red clover tested exceptionally well in every food plot variety test I've seen, both for tonnage, utilization, preference, and nutritional content.


We planted 50 lbs of red in our crimson and arrowleaf plots last year. The deer do use it, but I like to spray the crimson and arrowleaf with gly around the 1st of July after they have made seed and went dormant. The problem with that is it will kill the red out. We trying to get our plots so that we don't have to replant every year. We have went to almost all clover plots with crimson and arrowleaf on the ridge top plots and Durana in the hollow plots.


Edited by 8 POINTS OR BETTER (08/19/13 11:16 AM)
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#3327867 - 08/19/13 11:34 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
BSK
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I was hoping I could just continue to use grass-killing herbicides to control the grasses, and mowing to contain the broadleaf weeds.
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#3328034 - 08/19/13 02:32 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
richmanbarbeque
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[quote=BSK]I was hoping I could just continue to use grass-killing herbicides to control the grasses, and mowing to contain the broadleaf weeds.
[/quote

Exactly what I do.

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#3328322 - 08/19/13 06:32 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I was hoping I could just continue to use grass-killing herbicides to control the grasses, and mowing to contain the broadleaf weeds.


We have three plots that were planted last year with crimson, arrowleaf, and red clovers, that I did not have time to spray with gly at the first of July and just I brushed hogged and sprayed them Clet. last week. Maybe the red will stay in them, we will see.


Edited by 8 POINTS OR BETTER (08/19/13 06:33 PM)
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#3328458 - 08/19/13 08:15 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: smstone22]
AT Hiker
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 Originally Posted By: smstone22
I put cinnamon red in every clover plot I do. It is an integral part IMO.



We use that and ladino, both flourish at different times of years and have their own benefits. When also frost seed these two types every year into our pastures and hay fields, so far has provided enough N that we no longer fertilize N. Plus the wildlife love our fields now, makes hunting tougher but thats a side effect I can deal with.
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#3329357 - 08/20/13 02:14 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
Football Hunter
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I was hoping I could just continue to use grass-killing herbicides to control the grasses, and mowing to contain the broadleaf weeds.
Hoping to spray this weekend.
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#3334935 - 08/25/13 09:00 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Boll Weevil]
String Music
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We've used Mammoth Red Clover in several of our plots the past three years with GREAT results. We've planted it in some rough ground and it has produced very well. Red clover is a staple in our fall plantings.
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#3335012 - 08/25/13 10:32 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: String Music]
BSK
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Thanks String Music. Great info.
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#3343057 - 08/31/13 08:55 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
Boone 58
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I don't care for anything but white ladino because from my experience it never gets too large for them to feed on and they pound it all year long. However I made the mistake of planting yucchi arrowleaf and some of the plot mixes has the red in it and this stuff always gets so large you could bale it. It is a nuisance to replant over as it leaves large amounts of body sized thatch that we have to remove from the fields. So from here out I will be planting white ladino only. The clover below was almost impossible to clean up the next fall when it was about 3 ft tall and dried. Looked great in spring but by the time it gets this tall as in the photo......the deer have quit hitting it as it looses it's palatability.



In the photo below is pic of same field and you can see how much of a mess it has become......white clover does not do this in mid summer.....see pic below from yesterday!!!



Yesterdays White advantage ladino!!! still fresh because it thrives in shaded areas and the deer are pounding the 150 yard long field!





Edited by Boone 58 (08/31/13 08:57 PM)
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#3343537 - 09/01/13 10:32 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Boone 58]
TurkeyCreek
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BSK, I use Med Red & Crimson in my LC mix. The clovers last all summer. Timely mowing & Clethodim keep them mostly weed free & palatable all summer.

Tom

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#3343547 - 09/01/13 10:46 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: TurkeyCreek]
BSK
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Thanks TurkeyCreek.
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#3343847 - 09/01/13 05:19 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: TurkeyCreek]
Boone 58
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 Originally Posted By: TurkeyCreek
BSK, I use Med Red & Crimson in my LC mix. The clovers last all summer. Timely mowing & Clethodim keep them mostly weed free & palatable all summer.

Tom


If we could keep the mowed in a timely manner I would do this....but it isn't logistically possible at this time and spraying over 45 fields isn't affordable either.....but if money were no object I would! Good info! and good for you!! \:\)
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#3344098 - 09/01/13 08:39 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Boone 58]
TurkeyCreek
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Retirement & living on my farm does make a difference. Now if I can figure out how to pay for a notil drill things will get even better.
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#3344450 - 09/02/13 09:17 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: TurkeyCreek]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: TurkeyCreek
Now if I can figure out how to pay for a notil drill things will get even better.


That's going to be my biggest problem switching to no-till plot management.
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#3344718 - 09/02/13 02:19 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
JCDEERMAN
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I was hoping I could just continue to use grass-killing herbicides to control the grasses, and mowing to contain the broadleaf weeds.


We spray our clover with a light portion of gly and it kills the grasses and the clover does just fine. Which I think someone told me that the gly we get is now called Cornerstone
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#3347569 - 09/04/13 09:04 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: AT Hiker]
SharpMuzzys
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I try to mix 50-50 white/red when seeding. It gives me some benefit almost year round this way, and also helps to keep the weed grass from taking over during the summer.
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#3347890 - 09/05/13 08:29 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: SharpMuzzys]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: SharpMuzzys
I try to mix 50-50 white/red when seeding. It gives me some benefit almost year round this way, and also helps to keep the weed grass from taking over during the summer.


By "white," do you mean White Dutch or a variety of Ladino?
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#3348525 - 09/05/13 06:20 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
SharpMuzzys
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I prefer the ladino due to growth size and ph adaptability. Put it on the north side of a ridge and you are good to go.
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#3349110 - 09/06/13 07:55 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: SharpMuzzys]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: SharpMuzzys
I prefer the ladino due to growth size and ph adaptability. Put it on the north side of a ridge and you are good to go.


I've had VERY poor results from Ladino in ridge-top plots. Too little soil moisture.

But in bottomland plots, Ladino is King.
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#3349634 - 09/06/13 03:25 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
SharpMuzzys
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Yeah, me too. I found that if I could get a on the northern slope of a ridge where the top of the ridge drops towards the slope, I can pretty much keep it growing all year.

The rain/slope is helping to bring it down into the saddles and hollows.

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#3349712 - 09/06/13 04:43 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: SharpMuzzys]
BSK
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 Originally Posted By: SharpMuzzys
Yeah, me too. I found that if I could get a on the northern slope of a ridge where the top of the ridge drops towards the slope, I can pretty much keep it growing all year.

The rain/slope is helping to bring it down into the saddles and hollows.


Very interesting. If I find locations on north-facing slopes that stay shaded more often, I may give it a try.
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#3349794 - 09/06/13 06:08 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
JCDEERMAN
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: SharpMuzzys
Yeah, me too. I found that if I could get a on the northern slope of a ridge where the top of the ridge drops towards the slope, I can pretty much keep it growing all year.

The rain/slope is helping to bring it down into the saddles and hollows.


Very interesting. If I find locations on north-facing slopes that stay shaded more often, I may give it a try.


From what I have seen and heard about your ridge top soils, they seem the be a lot less fertile than ours. We have GREAT food plots on our place each year. Ladino does great, though Durana does horrible! I have also noticed that our north facing slopes do best for most all of anything we plant. Also, for whatever reason, our soils are better on our northern facing slopes on all our fields. I guess it just has something to do with "over time", that's nature. You know much more about that than me. Makes senses and go for it! Those are my observations
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#3349809 - 09/06/13 06:19 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: JCDEERMAN]
BSK
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North facing slopes get less hot, drying sunlight in summer (the sunlight comes in at a lower angle). In fact, in my area, I will see a very different mix of plant species on a north-facing slope than a south-facing slope directly across the ridge. The north-facing slope will be dominated by white oak, red oak, beech and popular, while the south-facing slope will be primarily mountain chestnut oak, and sourwood.

Our ridge-top soils aren't infertile, they are just very thin, rocky, and dry. But I'm going to be working on more no-till planting techniques in future summers to see if I can keep more moisture in the soil during the summer months. From what I've seen, I think we can at least grow bi-annual red clover during the summer.
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#3354027 - 09/10/13 01:00 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: Boll Weevil]
hitek7
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They have been hitting our red clover alot harder than the ladino we have this year.
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#3425486 - 10/29/13 08:43 AM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
creativomjh
Spike


Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 70
Loc: West Tennessee

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what are you using for grass killer? poast or an equivalent?

 Originally Posted By: BSK
I was hoping I could just continue to use grass-killing herbicides to control the grasses, and mowing to contain the broadleaf weeds.

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#3425833 - 10/29/13 12:24 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: creativomjh]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65629
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Clethodim.

 Originally Posted By: creativomjh
what are you using for grass killer? poast or an equivalent?

 Originally Posted By: BSK
I was hoping I could just continue to use grass-killing herbicides to control the grasses, and mowing to contain the broadleaf weeds.
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3428426 - 10/30/13 10:40 PM Re: Anyone using red clover anymore? [Re: BSK]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: maury county tn

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yes I planted it two years ago. first time I ever planted it. I liked it but hated it for some reason out of all the plots we plant it got crazy infested with weeds no matter what we did.
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