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#3321657 - 08/13/13 03:47 PM Frustrating
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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Tweaked my sight to get better zeroed in. Was shooting high and right, and made adjustments for that at 20 yd. then I go shoot 3 arrows each at 5, 10 and 15 yards and write down the adjustments... 1/2 inch high at 5, 2.5 inches high at 10, then 2.5 inches high at 15 so I went back to 20 yards and all the shots were at least 2 inches high at 20. There was the occasional shot that I obviously pulled, but I swear I cannot keep it zeroed. However I will not touch the sights or shoot again till tomorrow and see if it was fatigue causing the problem. Maybe I was unconsciously pulling the shots upward and just need to build the muscles back up. Any thoughts?
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

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#3321671 - 08/13/13 03:55 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 9438
Loc: Franklin, TN

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Could be slight changes in your anchor point. Any change in your anchor point will change your POI.
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#3321700 - 08/13/13 04:20 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: UTGrad]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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I have a peep sight so the anchor is pretty much the same every time
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

...since last deer season

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#3321701 - 08/13/13 04:24 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: UTGrad]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6089
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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In addition to possibly not having a consistent anchor, which will cause inconsistent hits and misses, you also could be "heeling" the bow—putting too much pressure on the heel of your hand, versus the pressure being in the "V" of your hand. That can cause the bow to kick up during the shot resulting in high hits. Sloppy form will bite an archer in the rear every time, but then again it could be your sights are just off a tad or your just fatigued and/or frustrated—which that was obvious by your title. ;\) Try it again tomorrow and only shoot a few arrows and then walk away for a bit.
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#3321732 - 08/13/13 04:54 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: TNDeerGuy]
ImThere
10 Point


Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Lewisburg, Tn

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Probably the number 1 mistake people make this time of year is over shooting, shooting fatigued will cause more problems than not shooting imo
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#3322082 - 08/13/13 09:21 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 9438
Loc: Franklin, TN

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 Originally Posted By: catman529
Tweaked my sight to get better zeroed in. Was shooting high and right, and made adjustments for that at 20 yd. then I go shoot 3 arrows each at 5, 10 and 15 yards and write down the adjustments... 1/2 inch high at 5, 2.5 inches high at 10, then 2.5 inches high at 15 so I went back to 20 yards and all the shots were at least 2 inches high at 20. There was the occasional shot that I obviously pulled, but I swear I cannot keep it zeroed. However I will not touch the sights or shoot again till tomorrow and see if it was fatigue causing the problem. Maybe I was unconsciously pulling the shots upward and just need to build the muscles back up. Any thoughts?


Take a break and see how it goes tomorrow. Some days my shooting is terrible. There are so many variables that affect shooting day to day. I've learned to notice trends vs just one day of shooting. I've had days where I'm preoccupied mentally and can't hit the side of a barn. Other days I can't miss.

One other piece of advice is shoot a few groups of arrows before making adjustments to your sight or rest. I used to fiddle with my sight every few shots and it was a mess.

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#3322098 - 08/13/13 09:29 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: TNDeerGuy]
fasteddie
4 Point


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 145
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy
In addition to possibly not having a consistent anchor, which will cause inconsistent hits and misses, you also could be "heeling" the bow—putting too much pressure on the heel of your hand, versus the pressure being in the "V" of your hand. That can cause the bow to kick up during the shot resulting in high hits. Sloppy form will bite an archer in the rear every time, but then again it could be your sights are just off a tad or your just fatigued and/or frustrated—which that was obvious by your title. ;\) Try it again tomorrow and only shoot a few arrows and then walk away for a bit.


^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^
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#3322111 - 08/13/13 09:41 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: fasteddie]
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 10/23/99
Posts: 8952
Loc: McMinn County

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Yep more often than not...you're moving around a bit.

But this time of year...a number of things could be at fault besides the obvious.

Humidity...reeks havoc on bow string/cables. If you don't believe me...take a perfectly tuned guitar, banjo, fiddle, etc...and go outside and watch what happens. Bow strings are no different.

Lighting...will play more of a role in left/right hits than anything, but don't rule out up/downs either.

A great example of the left/right hits is me at the ASA Classic. We had 20 targets...10 of which were on one side of a roadbed...and 10 on the opposite side of the roadbed. On one side, with the sun positioned behind the targets, I couldn't buy a 12...and actually shot two 8s on that side. When we "turned the corner" and put the sun behind us, I shot 9 twelves in a row out of the 10 on that side. The arrow was just going where my pin was holding...vs the other 10, where I was hitting just barely 1/8 an inch outside of the rings.

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#3322225 - 08/13/13 11:28 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: Crow Terminator]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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I will try again tomorrow for sure.

One thing I will do to help improve the anchor is put a stop on the cam like my old bow had. I will just take the one off the old bow if I still have it, and put it on the new one so I have a solid back to draw against so I am not fluctuating in draw length.
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

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#3322229 - 08/13/13 11:33 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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Darn, just realized I threw away my old cams a while back. Forgot to unscrew that stopper before chucking them.
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

...since last deer season

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#3322430 - 08/14/13 07:45 AM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
Hoss
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 02/14/00
Posts: 1465
Loc: Hendersonville , TN

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 Originally Posted By: catman529
I have a peep sight so the anchor is pretty much the same every time


Ahh... No. A peep does not guarantee a consistant anchor. It is a huge help but not fool proof. If every thing on the bow is tight and you did not hit the bow on a hard surface as to bend or force anything out of alignment the problem is almost 100% in your form or shot execution in some way. Inconsistent anchor is a huge possibility, along with heeling the bow or dropping your shoulder, foot placement can cause a problem (causes one of the previous breakdowns). Pulling harder or less hard into the back of your valley can cause high/low misses. A draw length too long or too short can cause the same inconsistencies. Too much poundage, fatigue and even corrective lenses can be a factor.

These types of problems are rarely based in your equipment. They are ALMOST exclusively a shooter based issue. No one believes that they are the reason they are shooting inconsistently, most believe that the bow is broken, their arrow rest is broken, their sight is moving, their arrows are messed up, or the guy at the archery shop screwed up my perfectly tuned bow and now I must change it back to the way it was. While each of these are POSSIBLE they are rare. The overwhelming number of variables in archery are shooter related.

It is kind of like the golfer who wraps his driver around the trunk of a tree. That bad shot is rarely the drivers fault.

Don't change anything on the bow. Take a day or two off and come back fresh and see if has improved. If not don't change the bow. Take another day or two. Then a Third. If after three sessions of inconsistent shooting make a very small adjustment to the sight, if your arrows are flying perfectly, and/or a slight adjustment to the rest if the arrows are not flying perfectly. Then Repeat the three session cycle. The repetition is what will get you to where you want to be. Changing the equipment is a self-defeating exercise.

To be a better archer first get your bow tuned. Then develop consistency. Then refine your tunability. Then work on accuracy and shot placement. Then adjust your tunability. Then nail down your sights and shot placement. This is how you get to be a really good archer. Most, overwhelmingly MOST, people who shoot a bow skip the "develop consistency" step. This is the hard work part of becoming an archer. It is not rocket science but it will take some work.
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#3322671 - 08/14/13 11:10 AM Re: Frustrating [Re: Hoss]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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thanks for the advice Hoss. I figure it is my own error because the sight and rest are tightened down. Will see how the shooting goes today with no fatigue
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

...since last deer season

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#3322732 - 08/14/13 12:04 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
thetoolman
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 1468
Loc: Charlotte, Tennessee

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I will tell you when I first started bow hunting I spent days even weeks sometimes chasing the sight. Took me a while to figure out it wasn't my sight it was me. Overshooting and getting fatigued will cause bad accuracy issues.

Last year I kind of had the same thing you are describing where I was shooting good one day and came back the next and was high and left, shot for a little bit, still high and left. Left everything alone and came back the next day and was high and left again, got to looking my stop on my cam had slid about 1/2inch and was causing my anchor point and draw to change slightly. Re-adjust the stop and was back on target.

How old is your string?
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#3322770 - 08/14/13 12:40 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: thetoolman]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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I need to put a stop on the cam.

I just got back in from shooting, and my groups were not very tight, but were not as high as when I finished shooting yesterday. Will give another day or 2 break and then see. Not touching the sight for a while now because I believe it is sighted in pretty well.
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

...since last deer season

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#3322849 - 08/14/13 02:03 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
infoman jr.
10 Point


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 3897
Loc: Elizabethtown, KY

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I constantly tell myself "let the bow do its thing." What I mean by that is, follow through. Don't grab the bow when you release the arrow and don't torque your grip. Let the bow work.
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#3323146 - 08/14/13 07:28 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: infoman jr.]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6089
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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You may want to look into this, or as handy as you are make it yourself, it will help you with grip/torque issues. I bought one for the young man next door as he was having numerous grip/torque/snatching issues and it does work.

http://dontchokearchery.com/
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#3323415 - 08/15/13 12:06 AM Re: Frustrating [Re: TNDeerGuy]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy
You may want to look into this, or as handy as you are make it yourself, it will help you with grip/torque issues. I bought one for the young man next door as he was having numerous grip/torque/snatching issues and it does work.

http://dontchokearchery.com/
is it just a pad in that particular shape that keeps you from closing your hand? not a bad idea, thanks.
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

...since last deer season

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#3323603 - 08/15/13 08:11 AM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6089
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: TNDeerGuy
You may want to look into this, or as handy as you are make it yourself, it will help you with grip/torque issues. I bought one for the young man next door as he was having numerous grip/torque/snatching issues and it does work.

http://dontchokearchery.com/
is it just a pad in that particular shape that keeps you from closing your hand? not a bad idea, thanks.


It is a pad that is surrounded by something fairly stiff—I suspect something like plexiglass? The idea is that it forces you to use correct hand position, location and makes it impossible to grip or snatch the bow—you have to use a wrist sling or finger sling though because the bow will hit the ground if you don't. Just follow the instructions on how to use it and you can see how to make it....like I know you're gonna do. ;\)
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#3323915 - 08/15/13 12:52 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 3966
Loc: LaVergne, TN USA

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to me almost no way you can be sure you are holding EXACTLY the same with a peep sight. Grip pressure could be different is one thing that is hard to tell. Archey innovation anchor sight solves that problem.
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#3323973 - 08/15/13 01:28 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: Headhunter]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
12 Point


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5339
Loc: Wilson County, TN

content Online
add a kisser button if you dont already have one, that will help some on anchor point consistancy.

will slow the string down a tad but prob not enough to notice.
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#3324123 - 08/15/13 04:18 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: REN]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

Offline
Shot about a dozen today... first group not too bad, just need to keep practicing.
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

...since last deer season

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#3324143 - 08/15/13 04:36 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: catman529]
Radar
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 31209
Loc: Kansas City, Mo.

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Practice with someone who is experienced and can watch your form , and also make sure your bow is tuned properly .
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#3324320 - 08/15/13 08:07 PM Re: Frustrating [Re: Radar]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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 Originally Posted By: Radar
Practice with someone who is experienced and can watch your form , and also make sure your bow is tuned properly .
done this with TnDeerGuy last year. He pointed out a couple things that helped. Just haven't shot all year until recently so I am practicing my way back up. Except this ear I have a 30 yard pin.
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Haven't been this excited about deer season

...since last deer season

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