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#3304365 - 07/28/13 12:29 AM Do you shoot "cull bucks"?
CAW
6 Point


Registered: 09/12/10
Posts: 875
Loc: Huntsville, AL

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Here is a good read on the topic...

http://www.qdma.com/articles/why-we-cant-manage-deer-genetics

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#3304369 - 07/28/13 12:37 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: CAW]
Master Chief
10 Point


Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2788
Loc: Henderson County

sleepy Online
One of the better articles I've seen shared on here. 100% agree
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#3304376 - 07/28/13 01:37 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Master Chief]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
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Loc: maury county tn

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great article
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#3304403 - 07/28/13 06:54 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: deerhunter10]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 11758
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We dont have enuf deer on this end of the state to have cull bucks lol
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#3304433 - 07/28/13 07:37 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: mike243]
Bone Collector
14 Point


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 8974
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN

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good article!
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#3304458 - 07/28/13 08:13 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Bone Collector]
tickweed
10 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4811
Loc: medon,Tn.

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great read
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#3304481 - 07/28/13 08:31 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: mike243]
MUP
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 Originally Posted By: mike243
We dont have enuf deer on this end of the state to have cull bucks lol


LOL No such animal imo. ;\)
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#3304487 - 07/28/13 08:36 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: MUP]
HOOK
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 05/01/99
Posts: 15754
Loc: Rutherford County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: MUP
 Originally Posted By: mike243
We dont have enuf deer on this end of the state to have cull bucks lol


LOL No such animal imo. ;\)


EXACTLY
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#3304514 - 07/28/13 08:56 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: HOOK]
KPH
10 Point


Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3726
Loc: Hendersonville Tenn

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I don't cull nothing.
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#3304519 - 07/28/13 09:00 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: KPH]
cecil30-30
16 Point


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 14151
Loc: Morgan Co

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 Originally Posted By: KPH
I don't cull nothing.
Ha, good one... \:D
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#3304528 - 07/28/13 09:20 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: cecil30-30]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
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Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6811
Loc: East Tennessee

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Excellent article! Hit the nail on the head many times.

There is no such thing as a cull buck!
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#3304531 - 07/28/13 09:22 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Diehard Hunter]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Aint six people on this entire forum who would know a cull buck if they saw one.
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#3304561 - 07/28/13 09:48 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: bowriter]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 11758
Loc: east tn

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bw I killed a spike that was about 180lbs with the guts in,at least 2.5 years old & maybe a tad older,never really seen a buck that somebody could tell me it was 1.Years ago if it had just spikes folks would say cull buck,I just admire & killem & eatem & let other folks decide what they want to callem lol.good read & closer to the truth than a some folks want to believe
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#3304571 - 07/28/13 10:06 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: mike243]
CAW
6 Point


Registered: 09/12/10
Posts: 875
Loc: Huntsville, AL

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My guess is that majority of "cull bucks" are killed simply because somebody wanted an excuse to pull the trigger.
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#3304581 - 07/28/13 10:22 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: cecil30-30]
easy45
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Registered: 11/06/07
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Loc: Chester County

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I shoot any buck that is 4.5 or older, I could care less what his antlers look like
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#3304601 - 07/28/13 11:03 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: CAW]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19284
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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IMO, free-roaming, there are no cull bucks in the entire state of TN (nor KY). "Cull" may have some validity in Texas, but even there, a buck generally has to reach 4 1/2-yrs of age before he's determined to be a "cull".

But TN ain't TX. And outside some extremely large management areas where zero bucks are killed before maturity, the word "cull" should be changed to "excuse" to rationalize one's desire to kill a buck which doesn't measure up to a particular hunter's stated minimum standards of a "trophy" buck. In other words, sometimes hunters don't want to admit to their peers that ANY buck is sometimes a "trophy" no matter what a particular hunter may claim to his hunting buddies.

Another common reason used to be, "I'm a meat hunter, and we need the meat." Heard much less since most true meat hunters now have the ability to kill a doe instead of a buck. Seems the recent trend in TN has been I'm hearing fewer claims of bucks being taken either as "culls" or for "the meat".

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#3304602 - 07/28/13 11:03 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19284
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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But a disturbing TN trend is somewhat just the opposite of taking a true "cull" buck: Purposefully killing off the most outstanding antlered young bucks when they're only 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 yrs of age.

How's this happening? By the widespread embracing of antler restrictions in defining a "shooter" buck, most pointedly those such as "4 on a side" and/or "8 or 9 points or more". While such antler restrictions do allow more 1 1/2-yr-olds to survive to 2 1/2, they actually significantly INCREASE the harvest of the best antlered 1 1/2 and 2 1/2's. Across much of TN, we now have mainly the smallest antlered of bucks surviving to maturity, just the opposite of what happens with the true culling widespread in Texas.

I don't believe we have so much a problem with the killing of small-antlered bucks (locally called either culling or meat-hunting) now in TN. Our real problem that's preventing the larger scale production of high-scoring older bucks is the over-killing of the best of the best young bucks ---- just the opposite of true culling, as in Texas. The best practical solution to reverse this "antler high-grading" trend is simply to avoid killing any bucks before 3 1/2, regardless of their how big or how small their antlers.

In other words, use "age" as the first criteria in determining which buck is considered a "shooter", just like they do in Texas, whether it's for the purpose of true culling or for allowing an outstanding young buck to meet his potential.

Because truly outstanding antlered 2 1/2's are often easily mistaken for 3 1/2's, many hunters who have recognized the antler-high-grading issue, are now focusing on taking bucks 4 1/2 or older, i.e. a mistake is a 3 1/2 rather than that spectacular 2 1/2. The reward is a growing number of 4 1/2 and older bucks with truly top-end antlers, most of which had to first survive being truly top-end 2 1/2's.

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#3304603 - 07/28/13 11:04 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: easy45]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19284
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: easy45
I shoot any buck that is 4.5 or older, I could care less what his antlers look like

Exactly.
Although, I admit to being intrigued by antlers no matter what the buck's age. \:\)

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#3304617 - 07/28/13 11:33 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Wes Parrish]
ImThere
10 Point


Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 2927
Loc: Lewisburg, Tn

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Any deer that walks under my stand might get an arrow. It may get a pass on monday and an arrow on tuesday.
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#3304629 - 07/28/13 11:55 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: CAW]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41862
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: CAW
My guess is that majority of "cull bucks" are killed simply because somebody wanted an excuse to pull the trigger.


There it is, right there. Have to have an excuse to tell at the check station or drive in.

And, that is an excellent article.


Edited by bowriter (07/28/13 11:59 AM)
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#3304637 - 07/28/13 12:18 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: CAW]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 14782
Loc: Lewisburg

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 Originally Posted By: CAW
My guess is that majority of "cull bucks" are killed simply because somebody wanted an excuse to pull the trigger.




absolutely. i think the problem stems from the fact that most hunters really dont hunt anything else, so they wait all year to pull the trigger. after fall squirrel, coyote calling and dove season- i have carpal tunnel syndrome.
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#3304640 - 07/28/13 12:23 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: redblood]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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My prime target. 2.5-years old, has already contributed a male and female fawn and is in excellent shape. She walks by me, I'll trip the latch every time. She would be an especially prime target during the rut. Can't find a better decoy or lure than a dead doe laying right in front of your stand.

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#3304656 - 07/28/13 12:42 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: ImThere]
EastTNHunter
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2893
Loc: Rhea Co., TN

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 Originally Posted By: ImThere
Any deer that walks under my stand might get an arrow. It may get a pass on monday and an arrow on tuesday.

^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^

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#3305184 - 07/28/13 10:22 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: cecil30-30]
serriaman07
4 Point


Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 133
Loc: tenn

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Lol if it early in the seasoning if its brown its down late on during the rut I let a spike and 4 points walk 2 years ago I could have killed a monster buck during the rut but I messed up when a hot doe came running in then a 4 point I shot the 4 point and right behind him was a monster 8 point so I learned a good lesson during the rut sometimes it best to let the small ones to walk
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#3305200 - 07/28/13 11:05 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: easy45]
W.Seay
14 Point


Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 8309
Loc: Collierville,TN.

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 Originally Posted By: easy45
I shoot any buck that is 4.5 or older, I could care less what his antlers look like


Yep
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#3305229 - 07/29/13 12:35 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: W.Seay]
hunter0925
8 Point


Registered: 01/21/13
Posts: 1092
Loc: TN, Rhea,

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I try to make it 8 or better, shoot does for meat and enjoy my season. I don't enjoy taking small bucks (my big bucks would be small to a lot of you!) so I don't shoot them. If I need meat I will shoot a doe. I have my own rules for what I will shoot dependent on what weapon I am using. Bow is different from rifle and while I am using my 44 bh it will be different from holding a rifle.
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#3305259 - 07/29/13 11:44 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: CAW]
mathews338
12 Point


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 5128
Loc: jackson co.

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 Originally Posted By: CAW
My guess is that majority of "cull bucks" are killed simply because somebody wanted an excuse to pull the trigger.
I agree and if that is what they want then fine.

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#3305283 - 07/29/13 12:01 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: easy45]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: easy45
I shoot any buck that is 4.5 or older, I could care less what his antlers look like


I'm shooting any buck that's 3 1/2, regardless of antlers, and probably shooting a "good" 2 1/2.
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#3305396 - 07/29/13 01:29 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3182
Loc: Franklin County

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I've been shooting a buck every other year mostly for about 11 years now so I'm doing my part to increase average buck age in my area. It's not something I plan to do, it just works out that way. In the years where I shoot a doe early in the season, I have meat for my chili for the year so I'm a lot less blood thirsty for the rest of the season. Then some years I hardly see any bucks. I can't imagine experiencing what some of you do in getting many chances at bucks and passing dozens of smaller bucks. My very best year I had an opportunity to shoot only 5 or 6 bucks. I passed them all and shot 2 does. \:\) All the bucks were smallish 6 points or less.
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#3305425 - 07/29/13 01:49 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3182
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: easy45
I shoot any buck that is 4.5 or older, I could care less what his antlers look like


I'm shooting any buck that's 3 1/2, regardless of antlers, and probably shooting a "good" 2 1/2.


Me too, BSK. About the only way I'll ever kill a 4 1/2 yr old is to hit it with my truck and I don't want to tear up my truck!

But seriously, I don't see a problem with focusing on shooting bucks with antlers that are too upright or have no brow tines. I'm not talking about where only one antler is malformed which is likely due to an injury, I'm talking about those bucks with a fair amount of "bone" on their head but the main beams grow up more like an antelope so that they have no spread. They just don't look as attractive to me. I hear what the article is saying about bucks dispersing from their birth place and then roaming again so that you are constantly getting an influx of new genes, but just because you can never totally control the gene pool doesn't mean you aren't having some effect. The degree of change you could realize would vary depending on how heavily you hunted and how large your land was.

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#3305438 - 07/29/13 01:55 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: CAW]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2582
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: CAW
My guess is that majority of "cull bucks" are killed simply because somebody wanted an excuse to pull the trigger.


Bingo. Every dadgum time somebody kills a young buck on our lease and nobody is around to see it ..... guess what, it was a cull buck. The story goes something like this, "It was a big-bodied buck, older deer, scraggly rack, his rack definitely wasn't going to get much bigger."

Amazing how the same SOB that shoots a "cull buck" is the great "cull buck" savior of our lease.
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#3305469 - 07/29/13 02:26 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Wes Parrish]
Outdoor Enthusiast
6 Point


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 973
Loc: Carthage, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
But a disturbing TN trend is somewhat just the opposite of taking a true "cull" buck: Purposefully killing off the most outstanding antlered young bucks when they're only 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 yrs of age.


Wes - I've never heard your theory on this. Please elaborate. ;\)

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#3305566 - 07/29/13 03:57 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Hunter 257W]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65401
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: easy45
I shoot any buck that is 4.5 or older, I could care less what his antlers look like


I'm shooting any buck that's 3 1/2, regardless of antlers, and probably shooting a "good" 2 1/2.


Me too, BSK. About the only way I'll ever kill a 4 1/2 yr old is to hit it with my truck and I don't want to tear up my truck!


HA! Love that!


 Quote:
I hear what the article is saying about bucks dispersing from their birth place and then roaming again so that you are constantly getting an influx of new genes, but just because you can never totally control the gene pool doesn't mean you aren't having some effect.


But here's the potential flaw in you theory: are you sure the "shape" rack you don't like is actually hereditary on the male line? In essence, is the buck with "unwanted" antler shape passing that down to his sons? Surprisingly, there is very little evidence that is occurring. In fact, the evidence exists that a father buck may be passing little hereditary antler information on to his sons. Hereditary antler characteristics may be passed to a buck almost exclusively from his mother.
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#3305570 - 07/29/13 04:00 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: BSK]
kldeerkiller
4 Point


Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 106
Loc: hawkins county

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I absolutely can't stand the term "cull buck". It's a excuse for someone to pull the trigger.
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#3305577 - 07/29/13 04:04 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: kldeerkiller]
landman
8 Point


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2488
Loc: TN & Western KY

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I would love to get into some of the Mid-West Hunting tracts
were they are killing 140"+ culls on TV......
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#3306030 - 07/29/13 10:42 PM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: KPH]
Snake
16 Point


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 19803
Loc: McMinn Co.Tennessee U.S.

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 Originally Posted By: KPH
I don't cull nothing.


They good too !
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#3306181 - 07/30/13 07:48 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: BSK]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3182
Loc: Franklin County

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Hunter 257W
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: easy45
I shoot any buck that is 4.5 or older, I could care less what his antlers look like


I'm shooting any buck that's 3 1/2, regardless of antlers, and probably shooting a "good" 2 1/2.


Me too, BSK. About the only way I'll ever kill a 4 1/2 yr old is to hit it with my truck and I don't want to tear up my truck!


HA! Love that!


 Quote:
I hear what the article is saying about bucks dispersing from their birth place and then roaming again so that you are constantly getting an influx of new genes, but just because you can never totally control the gene pool doesn't mean you aren't having some effect.


But here's the potential flaw in you theory: are you sure the "shape" rack you don't like is actually hereditary on the male line? In essence, is the buck with "unwanted" antler shape passing that down to his sons? Surprisingly, there is very little evidence that is occurring. In fact, the evidence exists that a father buck may be passing little hereditary antler information on to his sons. Hereditary antler characteristics may be passed to a buck almost exclusively from his mother.



Yep, I know you are telling the truth. The doe passes at least half of the traits down to the fawns. And as you say, I've read several studies that suggest the doe has more influence on antlers of her offspring than the buck.

Does this mean we have to shoot all the does with funny looking ears? \:\)

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#3306209 - 07/30/13 08:14 AM Re: Do you shoot "cull bucks"? [Re: Hunter 257W]
REM7
10 Point


Registered: 08/19/08
Posts: 3632
Loc: GRUNDY COUNTY

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I dont shoot small bucks. My small and other people small may be a different size thinking. I shoot what I want, when I feel like it just depends on the day or season Im having. I still dont get why some people hunt for what others think. If you want to kill a 5 point then be proud of it, if you want to shoot all does then by all means do so. If you a big mature buck only guy then post the pics cause we all like BIG antlers.
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