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#3295701 - 07/19/13 08:03 AM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Wildcat]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
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Read George Washington's books.

Alexander Hamilton was a social liberal.

Hamilton was the first Secretary of the Treasury while Thomas Jefferson was the first Secretary of State and those two fought like cats and dogs at almost every single cabinet meeting and Washington would send them out of the room just to get away from them.
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#3295831 - 07/19/13 10:09 AM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Wildcat]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 59448
Loc: Smith Co.

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#3296042 - 07/19/13 02:03 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Wildcat]
Rebel
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 03/16/99
Posts: 5115
Loc: East Tennessee USA

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 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
Guess who is going to take the biggest hit from this.

But not to worry, Obama will come though and pay the $9 BILLION with US taxpayer money.


Or maybe printed out of thin air from the Fed.
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#3296148 - 07/19/13 04:08 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Rebel]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
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Judge rules Detroit Bankruptcy unconstitutional and dishonors Obama

http://minx.cc/?post=341790
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No matter how big your house is, how big your bank account is or how big your car is, you grave will be the same size as everyone else's.

- Keep it real

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#3296191 - 07/19/13 04:44 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Stalkhunter]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 332
Loc: Middle TN

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Detroit is a case study in what is ultimately going to happen to this nation, states, and cities. This is what happens when (in this case a local economy) gets financialized (i.e., extracting value), the manufacturing economy (i.e., producing things of value) is hollowed out, voters who don't pay taxes become the majority, and then vast majority, and they vote in representatives who give more and more benefits to these voters at no cost to them, but at increasingly huge cost to the few productive voters who remain (and eventually bug out if they can), and the combination of statists, corporatists, non-taxpaying voters, labor unions, moronic politicians can't and refuse to do what is needed because it means they will lose power and benefits. Ultimately, whether it's the governor of Michigan or the Chinese premier or whoever, someone comes along and finally takes the punch bowl away.

The thing that shows how "f'd" up this country is, however, is this: here is a huge municipal bankruptcy which is probably the precursor of many more (Meredith Whitney again to be proven right; where are her detractors now?) and the S&P 500 has back to back record days while the Chairman of the Federal Reserve has spent two days testifying before Congress and can say with a straight face that he pays as much attention to Main Street as he does to Wall Street (and not one member of Congress has the cahones to call him on it). Fact is, the Fed does pay a lot of attention to Main Street - facilitating the extraction of value from the productive elements of our society for the use of Wall Street.

Rant over.
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#3296199 - 07/19/13 04:48 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Crappie Luck]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10489
Loc: Warren Co

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Ayn Rands quote is very telling.

Have you ever met a liberal/socialist who wants to be one of the little people? NO... They ALWAYS want to be one of the elite order MAKERS not one of the order takers.

That is because the pain of bad policy always falls on someone else if you are one of the elite. This promotes recklessness, cruelty, and dehumanizing people. Every idea is a good idea if it costs you nothing.
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#3296815 - 07/20/13 02:17 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Wes Parrish]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
Nodog, the bigger problem is people who take little responsibility for themselves, and expect others to do for them, things for which they are very capable of doing for themselves, but unwilling.



That is not the bigger problem, those people are the followers, not the leaders. The responsibility people fail to protect is freedoms only demand and yes freedom does demand of us something. What freedom demands is not that people are free to do X, that is a violation of freedom and produces government. What freedom demands is that the person who cherish's freedom treats the freedoms of another as their own. When company X takes advantage of the consumer because their is no law saying they can't that is the bigger problem simple because company X is entrusted with more and so more is required of them.

If individuals are on the take, it's because their teachers (the leaders of the nation, not government) have taught them how to be. Benevolent leaders produce benevolent people, corrupted leaders produce corrupted societies, That's our bigger problem.

The price of gas and it's subsequent abuse of freedoms only demand will not go unpunished, government will grow by leaps and bounds because of it because of it's abuse of the personal freedoms of so many. There is nothing anyone will be able to do about the growth this abuse of personal freedom will have because it's effects are so reaching. If you think government is too big now, just wait. People will give government all power to get back at this industry. The sad thing about it is the industry knows it, but like an addict, it believes it will always be able to stop in time.

Those who have are the leaders and because they have they bear a greater responsibility to freedoms demands.
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#3296825 - 07/20/13 02:29 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Wes Parrish]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
Capitalism is not to to blame for Detroit's or any other city's problems. Socialism and social engineering killed the cities just as they have killed the goose throughout history.

Exactly.
In fact, it was capitalism that made Detroit great economically. Socialism bankrupted the city by running off Capitalism.
Capitalism creates wealth; socialism does not.



Is there in this country a history of worker abuse? Capitalism without obeying freedoms demands is not capitalism, it's tyranny.

That tyranny is the reason Detroit turned to government for redress. Unions are not public governments, but the are every bit governments, the workers turned to governments because their freedoms were abused and our governments grew because the industry abuse the freedoms of the nation.

The history of coal mines in this country is text book government intervention and growth.

Little of what's happening today is because of what's going on today, these things started many decades ago and are now coming full circle. Our children's children's children will be paying for are abuses of freedoms demands.

People are not free to be capitalist and disregard the freedoms of everyone else they associate with, in fact if they want all to go well the freedoms of others to live a life of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is their only concern because in doing so they protect their own.
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#3296829 - 07/20/13 02:42 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: OHVATN]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: OHVATN
Detroit is a case study in what is ultimately going to happen to this nation, states, and cities. This is what happens when (in this case a local economy) gets financialized (i.e., extracting value), the manufacturing economy (i.e., producing things of value) is hollowed out, voters who don't pay taxes become the majority,


Every penny these people who don't pay tax's is used up. Those who control the country's wealth get every penny these people have and are given by the government. Everything they buy is taxed, everything and since most do not live well they also purchase things that are taxed the highest.

The wealthy are perfectly happy with how money flows from government to these people and back into their holdings. The total ignorance of the whole thing is if those who controled the wealth and jobs would've treated the people under them well they'd be probably paying 10% of all they do now in tax. A benevolent people will not empower a government to go after people who treat them fair. That's a summing up of our war for independence, the people could've sided with England, but instead sided with the "obvious" loser and won.

If Detroit is a perfect example of what';s going to happen to the country the wealthy say Hurrah! They are doing better than ever. This is not what's going to happen to the country. What will happen is in a short time the U.S. will become another society that once was, taken over by an outside government, the final step of the violation of freedoms demand. It's happened many times before. There was a nation much like ours, the super power of it's day that was no more in less than 8 years, it's military was second to none.


Edited by nodog (07/20/13 03:04 PM)
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#3296838 - 07/20/13 03:00 PM Re: Detroit files for bankruptcy [Re: Wildcat]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
Read George Washington's books.

Alexander Hamilton was a social liberal.

Hamilton was the first Secretary of the Treasury while Thomas Jefferson was the first Secretary of State and those two fought like cats and dogs at almost every single cabinet meeting and Washington would send them out of the room just to get away from them.


Hamilton was a tyrannical capitalist. The worst sort, one who not only treated people as someone to take advantage of for personal gain, but someone who also used the law to legalize the action. Much the same way corporations use lobbyists today. Hamilton was the corporation, lobbyist and capitalist. Some may say things are taken care of better today, some like the way Hamilton was handled then. He was shot in a duel.

There is nothing new under the sun, today is no different from Hamilton's day, there's just more of it.

Washington wasn't far removed from his English roots. Did you know he despised his troops, would've had them all shot, he just needed them too much. He was a politician, nuff said.
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