Tndeer Logo

Page all of 2 12>
Topic Options
#3293108 - 07/16/13 03:13 PM Brainstorming
thetoolman
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 1520
Loc: Charlotte, Tennessee

Offline
So sitting here brainstorming and thinking about mobility with a hang-on. I had a set of muddy climbing sticks and they were nice, but had some things I didn't like, particulary weight and noise.

So last year I posted a topic on the use of a rock climbing harness for a safety harness. Keeping in the same thought, anyone ever used an etrier ( Black Diamond Etrier ) I am thinking if I could get the top and bottom anchored and possibly use some sort of seperator to keep the foot loops open it could possibly be used in the same manner as climbing sticks. Yes/No/Maybe? Your nuts? Open to ideas, I know stability is a concern when using rope or webbing but I am thinking with a cinch strap of some sort anchoring the top and bottom sections of each etrier to the tree would provide additional stability needed to safely scale the tree with a safety harness. May be a little tougher than steel steps, but would be a whole lot lighter, easier to pack, and essentially noise free.
_________________________
Sophisticated people have retirement plans, rednecks play the lottery. - Jeff Foxworthy

"Vegetarian" old Indian word for Bad Hunter

http://www.completepctherapy.com

Top
#3293150 - 07/16/13 03:51 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: thetoolman]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
I use a pair of Black Diamond Etriers as a means to skip screw in and/or rope on steps. I carry 2 of them and they allow me to climb the first 10-15 feet of a tree placing only 2-3 steps. The foot loops are rigid enough that they will stay open (see pics below), however, down climbing is a little tricky. These work great for me and one of my partners uses them, too, but it will require a certain degree of physical fitness, balance, flexibility and confidence in your equipment. If you have moderate experience rock climbing and experience using climbing gear, should be more than reasonable to use for hunting. They are a great way to "cheat" on your climbing, weigh next to nothing, and stuff conveniently into your backpack.

Placing less steps allows me to climb faster and carry less metal gear. It also allows me to bypass the often very wide bases of bottomland trees. Since they taper off quickly, I can place my first step above my head, skipping the section of the tree that is too wide for rope on steps (or a climber).





_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3293212 - 07/16/13 04:49 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Poser]
thetoolman
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 1520
Loc: Charlotte, Tennessee

Offline
Poser, thanks for posting this. Gives me another idea. I guess my question is would it be feasible to carry 4 or 5 of the Ertriers and use them essentially as you would tree steps. I understand it would take some skill and practice but do you think it would be feasible?
_________________________
Sophisticated people have retirement plans, rednecks play the lottery. - Jeff Foxworthy

"Vegetarian" old Indian word for Bad Hunter

http://www.completepctherapy.com

Top
#3293285 - 07/16/13 05:56 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: thetoolman]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: thetoolman
Poser, thanks for posting this. Gives me another idea. I guess my question is would it be feasible to carry 4 or 5 of the Ertriers and use them essentially as you would tree steps. I understand it would take some skill and practice but do you think it would be feasible?


I thought about that. Granted, I do have 4 Etriers from my big wall climbing days (Hello, summer of 2001 when I spent much of the summer climbing routes all over El Capitan and Half Dome in Yosemite). It is certainly not unreasonable if you are familiar with the concept of doing such. Downclimbing is a little tricky since the etriers are flush with the tree. You have to find the loop with your toe and then "wiggle" you foot into them enough to take the weight. Once you have weight on the etrier, it is not a big deal, but the first step is tricky .

The biggest problem with the system is when you are downclimbing, you have the potential for the etrier to shift left or right (perpendicular to the tree), which would cause you to fall. If you are jugging lines or aid climbing as they are intended, this is not an issue, but climbing a tree with a lineman's belt, you are looking at a static fall. So, it is imperative that you keep your weight transferred directly downward when down climbing, which, depending on the girth of tree, can be a little tricky, definitely a bit physical. Don't get me wrong, I think this system is ideal for myself and certain other hunters. A mistake on any tree climbing apparatus can create a tense situation for the hunter, but I feel better pretty good about the time the first 12-15 feet feet save me using etriers, another 10-15 feet of placing steps every 3 feet seems reasonable to me, so I stick with that. I can climb most any tree to 25-30 feet and be fully set up in about 10 minutes.
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3293343 - 07/16/13 07:00 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Poser]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8447
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

Offline
This is genius! How much cost would that be for getting up, say 20ft? The lack of noise is what I am most interested in. I have already illuminated Velcro and many other noisy stuff I carry in. I think a lot of people underestimate how far sounds travel in the early morning. This would help me for 1) being silent and 2) hunting LBL (or any other public land) and not have to worry about theft
_________________________
Be nervous, but fear no one

In God we trust

God bless the USA!

Top
#3293363 - 07/16/13 07:14 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: JCDEERMAN]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
This is genius! How much cost would that be for getting up, say 20ft? The lack of noise is what I am most interested in. I have already illuminated Velcro and many other noisy stuff I carry in. I think a lot of people underestimate how far sounds travel in the early morning. This would help me for 1) being silent and 2) hunting LBL (or any other public land) and not have to worry about theft


Those Etriers are about $35 each, I think. You can girth hitch one on the front of a climber for bypassing wide tree bases. They are 5 feet long. I climb all the way up to the top step then lean back on my lineman's belt to place the next step as high as I can reach, then hang the Etrier and climb it. Repeat.

I'd say I get 7 feet with each, so about 14 feet placing only 2 steps.
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3293368 - 07/16/13 07:19 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Poser]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8447
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Poser
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
This is genius! How much cost would that be for getting up, say 20ft? The lack of noise is what I am most interested in. I have already illuminated Velcro and many other noisy stuff I carry in. I think a lot of people underestimate how far sounds travel in the early morning. This would help me for 1) being silent and 2) hunting LBL (or any other public land) and not have to worry about theft


Those Etriers are about $35 each, I think. You can girth hitch one on the front of a climber for bypassing wide tree bases. They are 5 feet long. I climb all the way up to the top step then lean back on my lineman's belt to place the next step as high as I can reach, then hang the Etrier and climb it. Repeat.

I'd say I get 7 feet with each, so about 14 feet placing only 2 steps.


So $35 per 7ft? Or did I interpret that wrong, Poser?
_________________________
Be nervous, but fear no one

In God we trust

God bless the USA!

Top
#3293375 - 07/16/13 07:23 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Poser]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

Offline
To me a quite approach is the key. Getting to the tree I want to climb silently is the difference between seeing deer and not seeing deer. Once I get to the tree creeping up the tree is just a matter of taking every step seriously no matter what I'm using to get to the top.

By the looks of that rig climbing could take a lot of effort, not good when climbing silently already takes a lot of effort.

If I had to pack in, your idea is worth more than a few tries to perfect. No metal noises with that setup, but wouldn't a climber be better?
_________________________
Hello

Top
#3293414 - 07/16/13 07:49 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: nodog]
thetoolman
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 1520
Loc: Charlotte, Tennessee

Offline
The thing about a climber is you have to have a straight tree with no limbs. I have a millennium M100 hang on so it and the mounting bracket weigh a total of about 15 lbs. You add climbing sticks and you are at 25-30 lbs easy not to mention bulk and metal on metal. I was just thinking while this could be challenging it may be worth the effort to perfect it. I really like Posers setup may look into something like that to start and adjust from there. What kind of material is the straps on your tree steps?

Also saw where you can get the webbing to tie your own Ertriers for about 0.30 a ft. Takes about 20 ft to make one 5ft long from what I am reading.
_________________________
Sophisticated people have retirement plans, rednecks play the lottery. - Jeff Foxworthy

"Vegetarian" old Indian word for Bad Hunter

http://www.completepctherapy.com

Top
#3293473 - 07/16/13 08:42 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: JCDEERMAN]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
 Originally Posted By: Poser
 Originally Posted By: JCDEERMAN
This is genius! How much cost would that be for getting up, say 20ft? The lack of noise is what I am most interested in. I have already illuminated Velcro and many other noisy stuff I carry in. I think a lot of people underestimate how far sounds travel in the early morning. This would help me for 1) being silent and 2) hunting LBL (or any other public land) and not have to worry about theft


Those Etriers are about $35 each, I think. You can girth hitch one on the front of a climber for bypassing wide tree bases. They are 5 feet long. I climb all the way up to the top step then lean back on my lineman's belt to place the next step as high as I can reach, then hang the Etrier and climb it. Repeat.

I'd say I get 7 feet with each, so about 14 feet placing only 2 steps.


So $35 per 7ft? Or did I interpret that wrong, Poser?


Correct, but I already owned them. Plus, I might climb 50 trees a season, so that actually $35 for 450 feet per year and I've been using these for 3 years. Again, not for everyone.


Edited by Poser (07/16/13 08:43 PM)
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3293481 - 07/16/13 09:00 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: nodog]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: nodog
To me a quite approach is the key. Getting to the tree I want to climb silently is the difference between seeing deer and not seeing deer. Once I get to the tree creeping up the tree is just a matter of taking every step seriously no matter what I'm using to get to the top.

By the looks of that rig climbing could take a lot of effort, not good when climbing silently already takes a lot of effort.

If I had to pack in, your idea is worth more than a few tries to perfect. No metal noises with that setup, but wouldn't a climber be better?


I hate the design of climbers. I owned one for a few months once, never actually hunted out of it, promptly traded it for a Muzzleloader. When I started hunting, I looked around at various stand designs, thought they were all terribly designed, awkward, heavy, loud, limited by tree size, angle and branches, too low to the ground etc

From my first season deer hunting, I went with a Tree Saddle and never looked back -won't use anything else until I see something that is as versatile. Granted, a harness system, like the aforementioned climbing system, is not for everyone. Your hunting style may not even need that kind of versatility. For me, though, I'm not carrying a bulky hunk of metal around on my back, I refuse to be limited to certain trees because of size, lean, or branches, I want to be able to seamlessly shoot 360 degrees, I like having the tree in front of me rather than behind me and, coming from a climbing background, I'm just more comfortable in a harness than sitting/standing on a platform. It is a more natural and secure feeling for me.

I think that the R&D of companies that make treestands are very limited in scope of what they can present to the market because hunters are rigidly committed to notion of conventional designs when it comes to climbing and hunting from trees. My thinking has always been combine aspects of rock climbing with aspects of the tree arborists and the needs of the elevated hunter and you come up with more versatile and forward thinking types of designs.
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3293855 - 07/17/13 10:41 AM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Poser]
thetoolman
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 1520
Loc: Charlotte, Tennessee

Offline
So doing some more research I came accross an old thread where they talked about climbing without any tree steps. Basic concept is with a Tree Saddle or Guido's Web and a sling or as some have found an Ertrier or other Aide works a little better and faster. Basically you work it similar to a climber. You take your top anchor point attach to the tree as high as you can reach, attach your Ertrier right below, climb up, slide your top anchor up, sit down in your saddle/GW, reach down and slide your aide up as high as you can reach and repeat (alot more technical than that, but the basic concept). Carrying an extra sling or two would allow you to manuever around limbs fairly easily and with a little practice I could see being at hunting height in 10-12 minutes taking your time and not working up too much of a sweat.

I like your thinking Poser, I think with a little tweaking and experimenting I can come up with a system that I do not dread packing in the woods.
_________________________
Sophisticated people have retirement plans, rednecks play the lottery. - Jeff Foxworthy

"Vegetarian" old Indian word for Bad Hunter

http://www.completepctherapy.com

Top
#3295890 - 07/19/13 10:59 AM Re: Brainstorming [Re: thetoolman]
thetoolman
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 1520
Loc: Charlotte, Tennessee

Offline
Poser, been doing some more research and found 2 other systems similar to the tree saddle.

Guido's Web
and
New Tribe Aero - http://newtribe.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=131

Both are pretty pricey, but really contemplating one or the other and using a sling system or aide system for climbing. Wondering about comfort though.
_________________________
Sophisticated people have retirement plans, rednecks play the lottery. - Jeff Foxworthy

"Vegetarian" old Indian word for Bad Hunter

http://www.completepctherapy.com

Top
#3295927 - 07/19/13 11:38 AM Re: Brainstorming [Re: thetoolman]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
That Aero hunting system looks well thought out to me. It is expensive, but many hunters own multiple lock ons, climbers, sticks and ladder stands etc. I think comfort would be fine, it just takes some time, 3-5 hunts to get your system dialed into be comfortable. You are essentially "sitting in" the harness not "hanging in" it, which is why most people think that it "looks" uncomfortable.
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3295940 - 07/19/13 12:05 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Poser]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 6400
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

Offline
I have the Guido's Web. I got it late last season and hunted out of it one time and got my first bow kill out of it. It is not a very light system, but it's super comfortable and can actually serve as a backpack of sorts to carry extra clothes and gear to your stand. I will be doing much of my treestand hunting with it this season. With the Guido's Web I carry rope on tree steps in an ultra light chest pack.
_________________________
"Florida State blew the coverage and they got rewarded for it. Coach Brian Kelly

Top
#3296001 - 07/19/13 01:22 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Vermin93]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
I asked one of my buddies who has experimented with multiple systems about that Aero design. Here's what he said:

A couple of years ago, when I was still experimenting with my Trophyline, I bought a New Tribe Tengu Harness arborist saddle (link below) to try out and see how it compared.

http://www.wesspur.com/saddles/new-tribe-saddles.html

It looks almost identical to the one in your link.

IT SUCKED!!!!!

When you weight the saddle with your feet on your platform and your knees against the tree, the leg straps put so much tension on the back of your legs that is becomes extremely uncomfortable within minutes. The waist belt is also extremely uncomfortable as well. You need support over your entire butt, upper legs and lower back in order to evenly distribute your weight and not get uncomfortable. They are not designed to be used in a reclined standing position. You need to be completely seated, like sitting in a hammock with your legs hanging over the side but not touching the ground. When you try to extend your legs to reach for the ground / platform, it cuts off the circulation. I spoke with their tech rep over the phone to make sure I had it adjusted correctly and was using it properly. It's just not designed for that setup. I didn't like it at all and gave up on that notion pretty quickly. I would consider it again if there was a local distributor that had a bunch of models that I could try before I buy. But most of them are not applicable because they have way to much necessary metal hanging off them and you'd never get them quiet.

$325 is pretty steep for a saddle that doesn't have any bells and whistles. Look at the prices of some of the more extravagant ones on the website above. The Tengu that I purchases was $200.


Tree Saddle still seems far superior. -too bad they are next to impossible to find these days.
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3311049 - 08/03/13 08:39 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: thetoolman]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 6400
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

Offline
First time I've seen this method. Simple, but slow. No heavy steps or sticks required, though, which is nice. Wouldn't work with a hang on, but would work with a Tree Saddle or Guido's Web type of stand.

simple climb
_________________________
"Florida State blew the coverage and they got rewarded for it. Coach Brian Kelly

Top
#3311090 - 08/03/13 09:13 PM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Vermin93]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13547
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
First time I've seen this method. Simple, but slow. No heavy steps or sticks required, though, which is nice. Wouldn't work with a hang on, but would work with a Tree Saddle or Guido's Web type of stand.

simple climb


-watched 1 minute. WAY too slow.
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

Top
#3311206 - 08/04/13 06:02 AM Re: Brainstorming [Re: Poser]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1672
Loc: East

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Poser
Tree Saddle still seems far superior. -too bad they are next to impossible to find these days.

There's one in the classified forum, right now. Going to eBay tomorrow.
http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3304614&page=5#Post3304614

Top
Page all of 2 12>


Moderator:  RUGER, Tennessee Todd, Unicam, Cuttin Caller, CBU93, stretch, Bobby G, TurkeyBurd, Kimber45, Mrs.Unicam, Crappie Luck, gtk 
Hop to:
Top Posters
4106599
RUGER
88400
Deer Assassin
65979
BSK
62020
Crappie Luck
51392
spitndrum
Newest Members
yarddawg54, schiesser, bigdoc, Bggamehunter, willy2763
13605 Registered Users
Who's Online
0 registered and 62 anonymous users online.
Forum Stats
13605 Members
43 Forums
100233 Topics
1180122 Posts

Max Online: 788 @ 11/11/13 08:06 PM
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Forum Donations
The TnDeer.Com Deer Talk Forum is for Tennessee Deer Hunters by Tennessee Deer Hunters. If you enjoy using our Talk Forum and would like to contribute to help in it's up-keep. Just submit your contribution by clicking on the DONATE button below and paying with PayPal or a major credit card. Any amount is much appreciated. Thanks for your support!

TN Burn Safe

Generated in 0.012 seconds in which 0.006 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Zlib compression enabled.