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#328722 - 08/06/07 08:59 AM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: TiminTN]
vonb
6 Point


Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 795
Loc: TN

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Tim,
Couple questions about your 'smith:

1) Is he in TN?
2) What the average wait time with your 'smith?
3) Do he check custom action for squareness before using it in your build? The whole ordeal on 24hour with the Stiller action has me concerned.

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#328746 - 08/06/07 09:31 AM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: vonb]
TiminTN
12 Point


Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 6297
Loc: Memphis,Tennessee U.S.A.

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Not in TN

No matter when you send it ain`t gonna be ready till the benchrest season is over, usually December when I get my stuff.

I owned a Stiller Predator for about a month one time and sold it.

He uses mainly BAT actions and is very sucessful in the point blank benchrest game.

He and the shooters that he smiths for really pissed off the Kelblys this year at the Super Shoot.

I have a good idea he does check actions. I have a custom action he has not had in hand and wants to give it a real going over.
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#328750 - 08/06/07 09:36 AM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: vonb]
PMC, certified
14 Point


Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 8741
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I am not much of a "Long Ranger" but my .02

I'd sell of the Model 7 300 Shamu and order a Stiller from the snipershide group buy ($600) to start from.

The rest of the recipe sounds great (McMillan, Nightforce, etc..)

For a long range rig I don't think I would spend the money to get it dipped. The game sure aint gonna see it \:D

Either way I look forward to pics when you do it.

Pmc
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#328786 - 08/06/07 10:14 AM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: PMC, certified]
megalomaniac
12 Point


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 5027
Loc: Mississippi

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mr. big....

Do want an efficient case or an ultra velocity case? Unfortunately the two are mutually exclusive- you simply can't have both.

Kinda like driving your car and gas mileage. The increase from 60 to 80 mph uses a disproportionately larger amount of fuel reducing MPG efficiency substantially.

From what I've seen, once you get past 3100-3200 fps, it takes a significantly higher powder charge to increase velocity only a little.

If you want efficiency only, the 6.5x284 will be the go-to round. From what I've heard, you can expect a barrel to last around 1500 rounds depending on how hard you push them.

What's the problem mentioned about stiller actions? I thought they were supposed to be top notch, no need to square or true... just screw on a tube and you're ready to go.

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#328824 - 08/06/07 10:31 AM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: megalomaniac]
PMC, certified
14 Point


Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 8741
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Check this thread.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1574598/page/0/fpart/1
Kampfeld has a Predator in his shop that isn't ithin tolerance.

Pmc
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#329311 - 08/06/07 04:32 PM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: megalomaniac]
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 28429
Loc: Copper Head Road

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you can use a good enough bullet you dont have to use as much gas to get the same results,,like racing and LS6 Chevelle and a ZO6 Corvette,,the 454 makes more power but the Vette will leave it standing.
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#329471 - 08/06/07 06:33 PM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: mr.big]
megalomaniac
12 Point


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 5027
Loc: Mississippi

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read the thread on the stiller, sounds like just a fluke on a single action. Hopefully won't be a recurrent problem for them.

Mr big, I don't follow the above statement. Do you mean 'cartridge' rather than 'bullet'?

In any case, just pull out your reloading manual, divide velocity by grains of powder for a bunch of cartridges and you'll see what I'm talking about. While there are certainly cartridges which can produce higher velocities with the same bullet with less powder, once you go beyond 3200 fps (for the bullet weights we've been talking about), all that I know of become less efficient. Go past 3500 fps, and the cartridges are powder guzzlers (like our 300 RUM's... not an efficient cartridge!)

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#329929 - 08/07/07 02:41 AM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: megalomaniac]
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 28429
Loc: Copper Head Road

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what I meant is it takes 100 grs of powder in the RUM to push a bullet witha .580 BC at 3200 fps,in the 6.5 you can do that with about 64 grs in the 6.5 Gibbs,6.5-06AI,,I just mean to get the ballistics I want without the horsepower I dont need I can get by with the new slick lighter bullets with just as good BC that takes alot less gas to get the same trajectory as the 200AB in the RUM.

I dont need 5K pounds of energy to kill what I`m after but i do need .550 BC or better at 3200 minumum to get the balistics I want with bench type accuracy and I would like to get it done with less than 70 grs of powder.
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#330084 - 08/07/07 07:52 AM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: mr.big]
TiminTN
12 Point


Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 6297
Loc: Memphis,Tennessee U.S.A.

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To me, the BC numbers keep pointing to 7mm.

Unless you want to hunt with a 6.5 130 grain Berger VLD.

What bullets do you have in mind to use in the field hunting?

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#330949 - 08/07/07 05:06 PM Re: how do you plan a long range HUNTING rifle [Re: mr.big]
megalomaniac
12 Point


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 5027
Loc: Mississippi

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 Originally Posted By: mr.big

I dont need 5K pounds of energy to kill what I`m after but i do need .550 BC or better at 3200 minumum to get the balistics I want with bench type accuracy and I would like to get it done with less than 70 grs of powder.



That IS a tall order... you will definetly have to build the rifle around the bullet for sure.

To get BC's above .550, you need 2 things... and extremely low drag bullet AND a heavy for caliber bullet. The problem with the heavy for caliber bullets, though, is that you'll need more powder to drive them up towards 3200 fps. There just aren't many choices out there, especially if you go with the standard bullet manufacturers.

A 7 STW, 7 Dakota will make it with the 160 AB's (but then you're under the .550 BC and over the 70 grains of powder). My 7 WSM will make just under 3100 with the 160's, but well under 70 grains powder

I wonder about the 160 gr 6.5mm Wildcat bullets. I haven't found any actual calculated BC's for them, but I bet the owner has them... I'd suspect they'd be well into the .6-.7's. If you could push them around 3000 fps, you might be able to make up for the lost velocity with the increase in BC, and be way under 70 grains...

I may just give Richard a call to get his BC's for the wildcats.

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